So I have some agreements with Bertrand here. I obviously don't work on this project full time (my full time work is involved in developing Jenkins), and the Slack digests, while useful, are nearly impossible to read whenever a large amount of discussion happens during a day, particularly because synchronous communication is mixed in with the typical development talk that would benefit most from being asynchronous. Another limitation I find there is that I can't exactly reply to digests, so having a longer term conversation that way doesn't exactly work.
Suppose, for example, I'm a contributor from a timezone not typically aligned with the times most of the full time engineers work on this project. Then having a back and forth conversation on Slack can easily get lost in the history, particularly because I haven't exactly seen judicious use of threads, either (which are themselves limited to a single level of threading unlike email). The large amounts of unnecessary messages that come in with a digest make it much harder to follow the technical discussions compared to, say, the threads I've seen on dev@ and GitHub issues. This also makes it harder for anyone who didn't see the initial Slack thread to contribute to the discussion. In all, I'm very impressed by the maturity of this project so far. It's certainly a production-ready project from what I can tell, but I'm still concerned about the chat. This would still be a concern even if the ASF hosted Slack itself (which isn't currently possible anyways) or some other chat service. Basically, in a distributed OSS project like with ASF projects, I'd expect to be able to contribute outside work hours (e.g., nights and weekends) as a hobby, and having communications be focused in media such as mailing lists, forums, and issue trackers makes it much easier to keep up to date with things, filter out topics I don't care about, and maintain conversations over a period longer than a few hours or days. For a work comparison, do you bother reading all your missed Slack messages when you come back from a week or two of vacation? If so, you're much faster than I am at communication, and I'm already reading way too many mailing lists as it is. :D My suggestion as to how to improve this wouldn't be the daily digest. My suggestion would be to ensure any development conversations that take place on Slack should be recreated on the mailing lists. This can be based on or start from the digest or chat log, but coming up with a summary of what was discussed along with providing an easier to use anchor point for further discussion would go a long way toward helping address this disconnect. As we typically say over in Commons or the other more volunteer-driven projects at ASF: if it didn't happen on the mailing list, it didn't happen! On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 12:25, Michael Marth <mma...@adobe.com.invalid> wrote: > > Matt, all, > > Strongly agree. > My understanding is that moving from ASF incubator to TLP is not (at all) a > statement about the technology but a statement about the community, its > diversity (in terms of stakeholders) and ability to carry forward the > project. I agree with everyone on this thread that OpenWhisk has proven to > have achieved that mile stone > > (but it does not hurt the cause to say that the technology runs in production > and is solid....) > > Cheers > Michael > > > > On 19.03.19, 16:56, "Matt Rutkowski" <mrutkow...@apache.org> wrote: > > Thanks Dave for raising graduation as a topic. > > To be clear... +1 (with stars) from me on moving to graduate... > > It is my belief that this project has reached a maturity level, with > credits to its devoted community, over the last 2 plus years to graduate. It > has been no small task to bring under Apache compliance the numerous repos. > this project manages and to deal with the ever-changing landscape of > Serverless and remain relevant as new technologies and projects continue to > enter this space. > > IMO, no other Serverless project offers a complete open source FaaS > platform solution that supports such a wide array of deployment choices, > runtimes, tooling (and I could go on and on) while striving to enable choice > for via documented plug-in points for common platform integrations such as > logging, metrics and test tooling, but also, for very complex topics such as > load balancing, scheduling and container pooling. > > This project is has matured to a point, where it should be noted, that we > are aware it is used in several public production offerings as a Serverless > platform directly or as the backing for FaaS integrations (such as for API > management or web hosting). > > If you cannot tell, I am all for moving towards graduation and (prompted > seeing this thread appear yesterday) have cleared my day to complete filling > out the maturity model matrix on our CWIKI (see > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OPENWHISK/Project+Maturity+Model) > to the best of my abilities and will be asking for comment/review/edits on a > separate thread once I complete my draft pass. > > In truth, over the course of the last 2 years, I have have truly > witnessed the community itself become a welcoming family that cares first and > foremost about the code and improving and enabling it for its user base while > establishing friendships that transcend other affiliations. > > Cheers, > Matt > > > On 2019/03/15 22:06:38, "David P Grove" <gro...@us.ibm.com> wrote: > > > > > > I'd like to kick off a discussion to assess the project's readiness for > > graduation from the incubator. > > > > Per Rodric's recent stats [1], the community has developed nicely in > terms > > of code contribution. > > > > We've released a number of software components following the Apache > release > > process. We are in the midst of making our first "uber-release" across > all > > of our sub-components (expect at least 2 voting threads next week). > > > > Overall I think the community is active. Communication on the project > > slack is frequent (avg of >160 messages a day) and is now digested > daily to > > the dev list. (See [2] for stats). > > > > There are a couple procedural tasks we still need to complete, foremost > > being the formal transfer of the OpenWhisk trademarks from IBM to the > ASF. > > But I think we can assume that these tasks will be completed and start > > considering graduation in parallel. > > > > Please share your thoughts, > > > > --dave > > > > [1] > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b2217c61caad5c7a0369699d06d44e5cf688d3cba982e354a45b8c78@%3Cdev.openwhisk.apache.org%3E > > [2] > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=103091999 > > > > -- Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com>
