Hi Xinyu,

  Thanks for the detailed design. One clarification on the field
dictionary storage:

  The PIP says the field name ↔ field id dictionary lives in "file
metadata". Does this mean the Parquet file footer (specifically the
key_value_metadata in FileMetaData), or a separate
sidecar/manifest-level structure?

  If it's the Parquet footer, a few follow-up considerations:

  1. The dictionary is duplicated in every file. For tables with a
large field union (tens of thousands of keys), does the footer size
become a concern?
  2. When reading, the dictionary must be loaded before any data
column can be interpreted — is this already accounted for in the read
path design?

  Best,
  Jingsong

On Thu, Jun 4, 2026 at 4:19 PM Jingsong Li <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Move to this correct thread, from Xinyu:
>
> Hi, Jingsong,
>
> Thank you for the thorough and insightful review — these comments were
> extremely helpful and meaningfully sharpened the design. I've updated
> the PIP to address every point. A summary per item:
>
> 1. **Config naming**. Agreed — dropped the .enabled flag entirely and
> standardized on the enum <column>.map-storage-layout = extend
> throughout. The only additional knob is
> <column>.columnar-extend.max-columns (the K_max cap).
>
> 2. **__field_mapping — int ids**. All examples now use int ids ([0, 1,
> 2], with -1 for an empty slot). I added a **worked example** showing
> the file-level name ↔ id dictionary and a step-by-step reconstruction
> of each row back into MAP<STRING, DOUBLE>, including an overflow row.
>
> 3. **Predicate pushdown correctness**. This was the most important
> point. The design **intentionally imposes no hard invariant** that a
> physical column always holds the same logical field within a row group
> — different rows may map different fields to the same column. So
> pushdown is treated strictly as a **coarse pre-filter**: column
> statistics can only skip blocks that provably cannot match, and a
> column that happens to mix fields is merely less selective (we read a
> few extra rows). The exact answer is always produced by
> re-constructing each row via __field_mapping after reading.
>
> What makes this effective in practice is the **natural locality of the
> target workloads**: rows of the same metric write in long contiguous
> runs sharing one field pattern, and the allocator pins that pattern to
> the same columns for the run. Since pushdown stats are fine-grained
> (page-level in Parquet, row-group/stripe-level in ORC), the vast
> majority of stat blocks hold a single logical field per physical
> column, so their min/max stay tight and page / row-group pruning keeps
> a high filtering ratio.
>
> 4. **Column assignment algorithm**. Added the streaming per-row
> allocator (ExtendColumnAllocator), which maintains an in-memory column
> → owning field state across rows: Hit (a reused field keeps its
> column), Evict (a new field takes a free column, else the LRU column
> is evicted), Retain (untouched columns keep their owner, so stable
> groups stay stable), Overflow (extras beyond K spill). To your
> specific questions: it is not a per-row first-fit, and there is no
> frozen "dominant mapping" — the state evolves continuously; when a
> row's field set conflicts the allocator simply re-pins, and
> correctness never depends on conflict-freedom (it's backed by
> __field_mapping).
>
> 5. **K sizing & overflow.** Specified explicitly. K_next =
> min(P99_row_width(recent files), K_max), adapting in both directions
> across files; K_max (default 256) bounds growth so a key explosion
> can't create unbounded columns. There is no fixed default like 16 —
> the first file simply starts at K_max (no prior files to adapt from),
> and an over-wide first file only affects that one file before
> adaptation converges. So overflow only catches long-tail rows in
> steady state.
>
> 6. **VARIANT shredding.** Added a dedicated section. The inference /
> reconstruct / plumbing layers (VariantShreddingWriter's ShreddedResult
> builder, PaimonShreddedRow + RowToColumnConverter, and ShreddingUtils
> / VariantUtils) are good candidates to refactor and reuse. The genuine
> difference is the **write-path column layout** — shredding binds one
> fixed column per field plus a blob, whereas extend reuses K columns
> per-row with a typed overflow. The PIP proposes generalizing the
> shared layers rather than building a parallel stack.
>
> 7. **Sparse-row space overhead.** Added a break-even analysis:
> columnar-extend pays off when rows are grouped and locally homogeneous
> and each row's field count is a meaningful fraction of K; default MAP
> can be preferable for very small, highly heterogeneous rows. The PIP
> gives concrete guidance so users can decide when to enable it.
>
> 8. **__field_mapping length**. Made explicit: it is **fixed length
> K**, one entry per physical column, with sentinel -1 for an empty
> column (examples updated accordingly). Fixed length keeps position →
> column deterministic with no extra position metadata, and it still
> compresses well since same-group rows share an identical mapping under
> RLE.
>
> 9. **Read-path pruning**. Made explicit: if a query does not reference
> the MAP column, the whole struct — including __field_mapping — is
> never projected and never read (struct-level column pruning).
> __field_mapping is a mandatory read **only** for queries that actually
> access the MAP.
>
> I also added a short section relating this to PR #7877 (map
> shredding). The two sit close on the same axis (dedicated-per-key vs.
> reused-across-keys columns) and could **converge on a single
> Struct-based framework** via a config switch, so I'd suggest we
> explore aligning the two efforts rather than maintaining parallel
> stacks.
>
> Thank you again for taking the time on such a careful review — it
> genuinely improved the proposal. I'd be very happy to discuss any of
> these further, and I look forward to your thoughts.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Xinyu Liu
>
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2026 at 5:23 PM Jingsong Li <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Xinyu,
> >
> > Thanks for driving this PIP.
> >
> > +1 for this!
> >
> > Left some comments:
> >
> >   1. Configuration option naming inconsistency
> >
> >   The "Public Interfaces" section says:
> >
> >   ▎ <column>.columnar-extend.enabled = true
> >
> >   But the "Proposed Changes" section uses:
> >
> >   ▎ <column>.map-storage-layout = 'extend'
> >
> >   These are two different APIs for enabling the same feature. Which
> > one is it? The enum-based map-storage-layout is more extensible, but
> > the doc needs to be self-consistent. I'd recommend the enum approach
> > (map-storage-layout = extend) and dropping the .enabled flag.
> >
> >   2. __field_mapping — strings or int IDs?
> >
> >   The physical layout examples show [usage, load, iowait] (strings),
> > but the text says:
> >
> >   ▎ "The field name <-> id dictionary is stored in file metadata;
> > __field_mapping holds only int ids"
> >
> >   The examples should be corrected to show int IDs (e.g., [0, 1, 2])
> > to avoid confusion.
> >
> > You should describe a specific example, specifically how it is stored
> > and how the mapping between actual data and real data is.
> >
> >   3. Predicate pushdown correctness is under-specified
> >
> >   The query path says:
> >
> >   ▎ "From file metadata, look up the dictionary: usage → its physical
> > column set S (e.g., {col_0}). Translate the logical predicate usage >
> > 30 into a physical sub-column predicate over S (col_0 > 30)."
> >
> >   This is only correct if col_0 always holds "usage" within the entire
> > row group. But the design allows different rows to map different
> > fields to the same physical column. If col_0 holds "usage" in row 1
> > and "rss" in row 5, then a row-group-level min/max stat on col_0 is
> > meaningless — it mixes values from different logical fields.
> >
> >   The doc needs to explicitly address:
> >
> >   - Within a row group, is a physical column guaranteed to always map
> > to the same logical field? If yes, this is a hard constraint the
> > writer must enforce (which limits flexibility). If no, predicate
> > pushdown can only use the stats as a coarse pre-filter and must verify
> > via __field_mapping per row.
> >   - How does the "writer column layout optimization" ensure this
> > invariant? What happens when it can't (e.g., two rows in the same
> > group map different fields to col_0)?
> >
> >   This is the most critical correctness concern in the design.
> >
> >   4. Column assignment algorithm is missing
> >
> >   ▎ "Writer performs column layout optimization while writing:
> > consecutive rows with similar field sets keep consistent physical
> > column positions, minimizing read amplification."
> >
> >   This is a one-sentence hand-wave over what is arguably the most
> > important algorithmic component. The assignment strategy directly
> > impacts:
> >
> >   - Whether predicate pushdown can work at all (see #3)
> >   - Read amplification (how many physical columns you need to read for
> > one logical field)
> >   - Overflow frequency
> >
> >   I'd expect the design to specify at least the basic algorithm. For 
> > example:
> >   - Is it a greedy first-fit per row?
> >   - Is there a "dominant mapping" per row group established from the
> > first N rows?
> >   - What happens when a row's field set conflicts with the established 
> > mapping?
> >
> >   5. Overflow strategy and K sizing
> >
> >   With K=16 (default) and the doc's own example of 5~50 fields per
> > row, many rows will have 34+ fields in overflow. The overflow uses
> > MAP<INT, T> — which has the same "no columnar access" problem the
> > whole design is trying to solve.
> >
> >   The doc says "persistent overflow drives K up in later files" but:
> >   - What's the adaptation formula? K = max(row_width) from the last
> > file? A percentile (p95, p99)?
> >   - Is there an upper bound on K? With 50,000 possible fields, K could
> > grow unbounded.
> >   - For the initial file, the user-configured K=16 may be a bad
> > default for "5~50 fields per row" scenarios.
> >
> >   The doc should provide clearer guidance on K sizing and set
> > expectations about overflow rates.
> >
> >   6. Relationship with existing VARIANT shredding infrastructure
> >
> >   The Paimon codebase already has a mature VARIANT shredding
> > implementation (PaimonShreddingUtils, VariantSchema,
> > VariantShreddingWriter, inference infrastructure in
> > InferVariantShreddingSchema). There are clear architectural parallels:
> >
> >   - Both decompose a semi-structured type into typed sub-columns
> >   - Both need a mapping/metadata layer to reconstruct the original value
> >   - Both integrate with Parquet/ORC reader/writer pipelines
> >
> >   The PIP should discuss whether code can be shared or patterns
> > reused. For example, the inference mechanism
> > (InferVariantShreddingSchema) could inform the adaptive K algorithm.
> >
> >   7. Memory/space overhead for sparse rows
> >
> >   If K=16 but a row has only 2 fields, 14 physical columns are NULL.
> > Plus each row carries a LIST<INT> for __field_mapping. For rows with
> > small field counts, this struct-based layout may actually be worse
> > than the default MAP storage in terms of space.
> >
> >   The doc should include a rough analysis of when columnar-extend
> > breaks even versus default MAP, so users can make informed decisions
> > about when to enable it.
> >
> >   8. __field_mapping as LIST<INT> — length vs. K
> >
> >   If __field_mapping has length K (one entry per physical column), a
> > missing field in position i could be represented as a sentinel (-1 or
> > similar). If it has variable length equal to the number of non-null
> > fields, you need a way to know which column each entry maps to.
> >
> >   The doc's example shows [usage, load, --] where -- seems to mean "no
> > field", suggesting fixed-length K. This should be made explicit. A
> > fixed-length LIST where each position corresponds to a physical column
> > is simpler but less compressible; a variable-length list is more
> > compact but requires position metadata.
> >
> >   9. Read path — missing detail on column pruning
> >
> >   The query path says:
> >
> >   ▎ "Issue one read with physical schema {__field_mapping} + S"
> >
> >   But if __field_mapping is always required for every query (to
> > confirm which column holds which field), it becomes a mandatory read
> > cost. For queries that touch a single field, this is acceptable. For
> > queries that don't touch the MAP at all, does the reader skip
> > __field_mapping entirely? This should be explicit.
> >
> >   ---
> >   Minor Issues
> >
> >   - The __overflow type is shown as MAP<INT, T> (int keys) in the
> > struct definition but {steal: 0.3} (string keys) in the example.
> > Should be consistent.
> >   - The comparison table says "Predicate pushdown: All keys" for
> > columnar-extend, but as discussed in #3, this is only true under
> > specific column assignment constraints that aren't guaranteed.
> >   - The "opt-in" column name <column>.columnar-extend.enabled uses a
> > different column property prefix convention than the typical Paimon
> > table options — worth aligning with existing conventions.
> >
> >   ---
> >
> > Best,
> > Jingsong
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 3, 2026 at 4:29 PM 刘欣瑀 <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi everyone,
> > >
> > > I'd like to start a discussion on a storage optimization for `MAP<STRING, 
> > > T>` columns targeting time-series, IoT, observability, and similar 
> > > scenarios.
> > >
> > > ### Problem
> > >
> > > In these workloads, data is **"globally heterogeneous but locally 
> > > homogeneous"** — the global key union across all rows can reach tens of 
> > > thousands, but each row only carries 5~50 keys that are highly repetitive 
> > > within groups (e.g., the same reportor always reports `{usage, load, 
> > > iowait}`).
> > >
> > > Current options all fall short:
> > >
> > > - **Default MAP storage** (KV arrays): no per-key predicate pushdown, no 
> > > per-key column pruning, no per-key statistics.
> > >
> > > - **VARIANT**: unshredded fields (>90% in these scenarios) fall into a 
> > > binary blob, losing all columnar advantages.
> > >
> > > - **Wide table**: flattening 50,000+ fields into columns results in >99% 
> > > NULL, with metadata explosion and unbounded schema churn.
> > >
> > > ### Proposed Solution: Columnar-Extend
> > >
> > > We propose an **opt-in storage optimization** for MAP columns — enabled 
> > > via a table option:
> > >
> > > ```sql
> > >
> > > CREATE TABLE metrics (
> > >
> > > ts TIMESTAMP,
> > >
> > > metric STRING,
> > >
> > > ext-map MAP<STRING, DOUBLE>
> > >
> > > ) WITH (
> > >
> > > 'ext-map.map-storage-layout' = 'extend',
> > >
> > > 'ext-map.columnar-extend.num-columns' = '16'
> > >
> > > );
> > >
> > > ```
> > >
> > > The key idea: instead of storing MAP entries as KV arrays, physically 
> > > rewrite them into a **Struct with `K` typed reusable columns** plus a 
> > > lightweight `__field_mapping`. This gives every key full columnar 
> > > treatment — predicate pushdown, column pruning, native statistics — while 
> > > keeping the column count bounded at `K` (tens, not tens of thousands). 
> > > Rows exceeding `K` keys spill into a small overflow map, so correctness 
> > > never depends on `K` being large enough. `K` adapts across files based on 
> > > the actual data width.
> > >
> > > The logical type stays `MAP<STRING, T>` — the optimization is transparent 
> > > to users. Existing queries like `ext-map['usage'] > 30` work unchanged; 
> > > the engine translates them into physical sub-column predicates internally.
> > >
> > > ### PIP Document
> > >
> > > The full proposal — including physical layout, query path, public 
> > > interface changes, and rejected alternatives — is available here: 
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/PAIMON/PIP-43%3A+Columnar-Extend+Storage+Optimization+for+MAP+Type+in+Paimon
> > >
> > > ### Looking for Feedback
> > >
> > > I'd appreciate community feedback on:
> > >
> > > 1. The overall approach — e.g., column count exceeding K with 
> > > `__overflow` vs. other strategies.
> > >
> > > 2. The configuration design (`map-storage-layout` enum, `num-columns`).
> > >
> > > 3. Any concerns about compatibility.
> > >
> > > 4. Additional use cases — beyond time-series/IoT/observability, are there 
> > > other scenarios in your workloads where MAP columns have 
> > > high-cardinality, locally-repetitive keys that would benefit from this 
> > > optimization?
> > >
> > > Looking forward to the discussion!
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Xinyu

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