Hi Andre,
Andre Schnabel wrote:
Hi all,
I'm writing this, as I'm really worried about the quality of our current
(or upcoming) versions.
To bring you my "francophone" feed back, I must say you're right.
To temparat my and your comment, I must say too that if lot of
*contributors* of our project would have prefered that the 2.0 would be
the 2.0.1, the general feedback is much more better and a lot of new
comers are really happy with this version.
Shure, we have no (or close to none) reported stopper for the RC, but is
this enough to say "we have build, that is good for releasing to the
enduser"? Honestly speaking .. not to me.
no, I agree, there is too much regressions. Issues with regressions flag
are those that are pointed more than any other bug :)
I cannot tell about the english (or better said non-german) users. But
reading the german user lists, beiing at local events and speaking with
users, they have often troubles with funktionality, that works not as
expected. They cannot tell, if they are doing something wrong, or if OOo
is broken.
The first time, they find such a problem, this meight be their own
fault. The second time .. ok, may happen. But the thirt fourth and fith
time they start to ask, if the software is ready to use.
This is not at this point in our community as we tell them that the bug
will be corrected. This is not true for Impress that suffer of a lot of
regressions that are not targeted or delayed (see issues 41800 or 48454
top of my head example)
So, no matter, if we have stoppers or not, the user "feels" that the
software has bugs and in saome cases, users are hurt by those bugs and
will move away. More worse .. they are beginning to spread the word.
This is not still the case in our community, but credibility is in
damage. In fact, between the list outage and the bugs, our credibility
is really in discussion.
Ok, that's all about feelings, but there are also facts. We have a lot
of bugs in our current and upcoming release. We always had, but let's
look at some numbers.
In OOo 1.0.1, 464 bugs have been fixed in OOo 1.0.2 - 165, OOo 1.1.3 - 63
At the moment we have 1714(!) bugs with target 2.0.1 plus 619 with
target 2.0.2.
That means, if we do release as planned, we will *know* that we have
quite the same amount of bugs, as we fixed in 1.1. codeline.
And this would not be in a .0 release, but in .1.
Btw.: 72 Issues are of Prio 2, what means, they occure in main
functionality, cause crashes and/or data loss.
Actually, I'm not sure that the release team is not working on a rc3,
Martin didn't say about that. He saids that he would like to come near
to 0 regressions and that's how I understood the rc2. You have proposed
that rc1 and further helped to clean IZ, and I think it's very good
idea. Why don't we go on with that schemas ?
In addition to that, we have close to 1000 unconfirmed issues. Another
potential risk.
There will always have risks in a new release ;)
So .. if you ask, if we have stoppers: no, we don't have
I think nl project has, and you mentionned some potential stoppers on
release@ wich I agree with.
If you ask (as a user) if I would advice to use OOo 2 in production use,
I'd rather say nothing, as I cannot tell if you were hit by one of the
many bugs.
Well, I agree with you. I know several companies that will wait for
january to move on, waiting for 2.0.2 instead of migrating on 2.0
Ok, this all said, should provide some of the reasons, why I think, we
should delay OOo 2.0.1 (or even "virtually skip it"). Of course, what is
currently planned for 2.0.1 is better than what we have with 2.0.0. But
I still think, it is not enough to keep the image of a software, that's
quality is good enough for production use.
+1 but all regressions must be worked on by us (qa) and verifyed and
classifyed, and targeted.
I'm fully aware, that such a decision would have impact on several
groups inside and outside the project. So I'd like to have input:
- what's going on on the english user lists?
- what is the native lang community thinking?
I'm giving you the contributor feedback of the fr project. But please,
note that this is not the user feedback.
- has marketing some ideas?
- comments from developers?
I'm not a developer :) but I think that releasing is of importance for
all of them, even if we (the non developer community) are aware of bugs,
issues, problems. Their is a time for them to see their baby stand up
and walk and this is really an important moment. This allow to go on,
with confidence, pleasure and proudness. And yes, thanks to all of them
for that baby :)
In Koper, the council discussed the revival of the release committe and
put some names on it. I'd ask all who have been named there to give
comments. Unfortunately, there have not been much responses to my recent
mails.
(All others are welcome to answer as well).
Sorry if I didn't react. It take me some time to analyze the different
comments from users, contributors, developers. What I can see currently
is that several companies are willing to contribute back because they
recognize the work done and are filling grateful. I think that
engeeners, developers and all the contributors make this possible
because of the 2.0 release. So this is why I (as a project lead) don't
really know what to do about the 2.0.1 and it's delivery relevance and
this is where I join you. However I know that a lot of users (in
administrations for example) is waiting after it because of the style
bugs that are corrected.
André
PS.: all that said, I still think, that developers and all the other
community members do a great job and that we are able to deliver a great
software.
Yes, we know how you like OOo :) And I'm sure that all who will comment
here won't do it differently. This is why I made the difference between
contributors and users, because most of the users were really happy with
the new product they used, and happy to know when they discover a bug,
that it will be soon (apart Impress) corrected :)
Kind regards
Sophie
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