On 21 January 2013 20:20, Justin Ross <[email protected]> wrote:

> My main goal is to populate the top level with equivalent things.  If
> we don't, then I think the source tree itself forces you to think
> about Qpid with two conflicting frames: Qpid is qpid/{cpp,java,etc.},
> and Qpid is qpid/{proton,$futuremodule,etc.}.
>
> The funny name is not required.  The trouble is I can't think of a
> better approach.  Can you think of a functional name that works in
> this role?  I'm open to almost anything except qpid/qpid.
>
>

While I think we could probably spend some time thinking about the desired
end-state of our source tree (and should think about how we can move things
such as the Java and C++ Brokers to become peers of Proton in said tree),
I'm not sure changing these will fundamentally solve the communication
issues around how the components of the project fit together.  I think it
more important to review our website and our release artefacts.

While the source tree is undoubtedly a mess, it will mostly affect
ourselves as developers on Qpid.  Hopefully we should be aware of the fact
that Proton is a sub-project of Qpid, and the fact that the other
"sub-projects" currently have a really poor directory structure is just an
accident of history.

In order to communicate better how Proton and other components make up the
Qpid project I think we need to take a good hard look at how we present
ourselves through the website, our documentation, and in our mailing lists.

If we are to be discussing source code directory structure I would like us
to actually agree (and document) what our fundamental requirements are,
particularly given the ongoing discussion [1] on the proton mailing list on
how we cope with interdependency between different (cross language)
sub-components within proton itself.  Other points of view / suggestions in
that discussion would be most welcome.

-- Rob

[1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/qpid-proton/201301.mbox/browser


> Justin
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Robbie Gemmell
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > If we were going to move them down a level then I wouldnt pick what seems
> > like a fairly random new name for the folder, especially if the
> motiviation
> > is to make things clearer. Thats definitely not where names like
> > trident/triton take me, and I have no idea where it would take someone
> new
> > coming along looking for all the existing stuff that is as far as they
> are
> > concerned just now, what Qpid is.
> >
> > I dont have anything to suggest myself right now, but the end state
> example
> > doesnt particularly inspire me as easier to work with either, requiring
> > lots of different chekouts to stay out to date on the different
> components,
> > or alternatively a massive amount of playing with svn folder depths on
> > checkouts (which im not sure play nice with git-svn anyway).
> >
> > Regarding the existing extra 'inner qpid folder', we have discussed
> > removing it in the past and decided not to simply because it had been
> that
> > way for so long, isnt really doing any harm , and doesnt seem worth the
> > hassle for merges, breaking peoples existing checkouts etc. Its presence
> > doesnt particularly bother me either FWIW, its easy enough to ignore
> > (though I actually dont, I checkout 'trunk')
> >
> > Robbie
> >
> > On 21 January 2013 17:17, Justin Ross <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Qpid has undergone some important changes in the last year.  "What
> >> Qpid is" has shifted.  In particular, the introduction of Proton is
> >> important because it means that Qpid is not just (mainly) the stuff
> >> under repos/asf/qpid/trunk/qpid anymore.
> >>
> >> One point of confusion (and certainly not the only! more emails to
> >> follow) is the source tree.  Here's what we have now:
> >>
> >>   jross@localhost qpid$ svn ls https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/qpid/
> >>   branches/
> >>   doap_qpid.rdf
> >>   proton/
> >>   site/
> >>   tags/
> >>   trunk/
> >>
> >> Some of those things are alike, and some are not.  Since the
> >> introduction of "proton" and "site" at this level, we've begun to mix
> >> the long-existing qpid/$language model with the new one that has
> >> distinct and independently releasable modules.
> >>
> >> The first step I propose to clean things up is pretty simple.  Take
> >> qpid/{branches,tags,trunk} and move them under a name, just as proton
> >> is organized.
> >>
> >> In other words, move to this:
> >>
> >>   qpid/
> >>     doap_qpid.rdf
> >>     site/
> >>     proton/
> >>       trunk/
> >>       branches/
> >>       tags/
> >>     trident/ - qpid as we have known it
> >>       trunk/
> >>       branches/
> >>       tags/
> >>
> >> Queue naming debate, ;).  I chose "trident" for my illustration
> >> because I like how it sounds.  I would also take this opportunity
> >> eliminate the extra qpid (die repos/asf/qpid/trunk/*qpid*).
> >>
> >> After that step, I see it evolving over time as in the following
> example:
> >>
> >>   qpid/
> >>     doap_qpid.rdf
> >>     site/
> >>     proton/
> >>     triton/
> >>     ---
> >>     jms/ - a new jms implementation powered by proton
> >>     janet/ - a new home for the java tree, migrated from
> triton/trunk/java
> >>     casper/ - a new home for the cpp tree, migrated from
> triton/trunk/cpp
> >>
> >> This is merely an illustration of what I would consider correct under
> >> this new scheme.  I've included the last two to show how I think we
> >> might begin to move things out of triton (which is more or less the
> >> old qpid model as is) and into new top-level modules.
> >>
> >> The names under qpid/ should not in my opinion be brands unto
> >> themselves; "Qpid" is our brand, and Qpid has named components.  They
> >> are simply distinct modules with defined interfaces and dependencies.
> >> They *can* be released independently, and in some cases we would have
> >> reason to do so, but in general I think creating one release
> >> distribution is preferable.
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >> Justin
> >>
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> >>
>
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