>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ate Douma [mailto:[email protected]]
>Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 5:47 AM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] performance issues and the 0.17 release target
>
>On 11/01/2012 05:50 AM, Chris Geer wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 6:37 PM, Ate Douma <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/01/2012 01:49 AM, Franklin, Matthew B. wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am +0 for the release in the current state. H2 file system performance
>>>> is know to be an issue in general, but I don't see how a single widget can
>>>> take that long to pull from the database.
>>>>
>>>> That being said, it is still a 0.xx release, and it seems to be fine in
>>>> MySQL.
>>>>
>>>>   I agree the performance issue with H2 remains worrisome.
>>> And while I'm also +0 on doing the release, I rather see this resolved
>>> first properly, and some more hammering out possible other wrinkles from
>>> the model-split merge.
>>
>>
>>> Releasing right now, so shortly after the merge without proper time for
>>> testing actually doesn't feels very proper in itself.
>>>
>>> Keeping the monthly release momentum going though also is important,
>so
>>> I'm unsure which way to choose.
>>>
>>
>> I understand the advantages of the strict monthly releases but I'd argue
>> the the strict schedule isn't as needed now as it was 6 months ago. Now
>> that we are tackling larger efforts it might be time to consider moving to
>> a release-as-ready approach, provided we still do them frequently when
>> possible. If we want to stick with the monthly release we should put in
>> some guidelines on branch merges (i.e. only at the beginning of the month)
>> to provide adequate time for trunk testing, or get more testing while still
>> on the branch.
>
>I agree to both options :)
>
>I like and support a release-when-ready approach, but only when specifically
>planned as  needed, only for specific cases like large branch merges. And then
>only deal with that single case, not stacking multiple major changes within one
>release cycle. And I would still stick to a regular release time-window size,
>e.g. one (or two) months. So, if a feature isn't ready within a month, we
>simply
>extend until the next scheduled release date, e.g. like another month later.
>
>Sticking to a strict release schedule (monthly or maybe bi-monthly, which I'd
>be
>OK with too) remains important IMO to keep ourselves sharp and focused on
>a
>release early and often mindset.

Given the low(er) overhead of releases outside of the incubator, I am +1 for 
monthly releases as a normal cadence and release when ready for larger changes.

>
>>
>>>
>>> Personally I don't need the 0.17 release right now, nor for the ApacheCon.
>>> So maybe it is better to hear out what others think or need.
>>>
>>> Should we:
>>>
>>> a) proceed with releasing 0.17: stick to procedure and/or I need a release
>>> now
>>> b) better skip one release cycle and focus on fixing and improving the
>>> model-split merge, the H2 performance issues are cleared up and possible
>>> other wrinkles hammered out as well
>>>
>>
>> My personal preference would be to go with option b, skip the release (or
>> delay it until next week). I'm not against the release since I believe it
>> still has good features and is performant running with MySQL but I don't
>> have a driving need to have it released.
>>
>
>I too am leaning towards option b) but not with only a week delay. In that case
>I prefer to delay until the next scheduled release (see above).
>
>>>
>>> Please provide your feedback until say tomorrow evening, CET.
>>> If still inconclusive by then, I'll decide myself.
>>>
>>> Regards, Ate
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from a mobile device
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Ate Douma [[email protected]<mailto:ate@**douma.nu
><[email protected]>>]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 08:17 PM Eastern Standard Time
>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] performance issues and the 0.17 release target
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As already reported on RAVE-838, it seems H2 is the real culprit for the
>>>> performance issue.
>>>>
>>>> Even while we can/should improve on our logic to reduce the number of
>>>> times we
>>>> (re)instantiate the same persistent object during a single request, using
>>>> MySQL
>>>> instead of H2 bring the performance back to acceptable level.
>>>>
>>>> Although H2 is our default embedded database, I don't think this problem
>>>> should
>>>> be a release blocker. Of course we must provide proper release notes
>>>> informing
>>>> the community about this issue with H2, but as I expect/hope nobody
>uses
>>>> H2 for
>>>> real, this shouldn't be a show stopper for anyone.
>>>>
>>>> So, I propose to proceed with the 0.17 release, meaning going for option
>>>> a)
>>>> below. Because it already is rather late here (Europe), I will start on
>>>> this
>>>> tomorrow morning my time, assuming lazy consensus.
>>>> If anyone thinks different, please chime in.
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Ate
>>>>
>>>> On 10/31/2012 06:11 PM, Chris Geer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Ate Douma <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you all might have noticed, after the model-split branch merge, I've
>>>>>> encountered a major performance degrading, at least in my standard
>Rave
>>>>>> trunk build environment. More details about this in RAVE-838 where
>Chris
>>>>>> and Matt also have chimed in on the discussion so far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The question I need to raise is: how should we deal with this while the
>>>>>> 0.17 release target is or was planned for today?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IMO we have about 4 options to choose from:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a) The performance issues turn out to be either easily fixable or else
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> reproducible (enough) for this to be a show stopper: 0.17 release can
>>>>>> continue as planned, maybe with only a slight (1 day max) delay to
>>>>>> properly
>>>>>> verify this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> b) The performance issues are serious enough to warrant fixing first,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> can be done on short notice, delaying the 0.17 release but no more
>than
>>>>>> 2
>>>>>> days (e.g. Friday the latest)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> c) The performance issues are serious and cannot be fixed properly
>>>>>> before
>>>>>> end of the week. However it is important* to have the 0.17 release
>done
>>>>>> anyway, in which case the community needs to be informed that this
>>>>>> release
>>>>>> isn't really usable other than for development purposes. For example,
>we
>>>>>> could postfix the release version like 0.17-dev.
>>>>>> * Why might a 0.17 release be desired, even with serious performance
>>>>>> issues?
>>>>>>      - Because it allows completing and verifying *other* 0.17 features,
>>>>>> even
>>>>>> if only in a development environment
>>>>>>      - because it is desirable to have a new release ready before
>>>>>> ApacheCon
>>>>>> EU, for the community as well as for Rave specific presentations, e.g.
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> Matt's and/or my own presentation. However: I'm also considering
>>>>>> temporarily downgrading the current Rave content services sandbox to
>use
>>>>>> Rave 0.16 instead, so *for me* this might not be important, even if less
>>>>>> ideal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> d) The performance issues are serious and doing the 0.17 release
>*now*
>>>>>> isn't that critical, so simply skip the release this month and
>>>>>> re-schedule
>>>>>> 0.17 release for next month (no need to 'drop' the 0.17 version IMO).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> e) Back out the model-split branch merge, fix any issues on the branch
>>>>> then
>>>>> remerge in the future.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> As I just commented on RAVE-838, I'll do some more testing (with
>MySQL
>>>>>> instead of H2 database) later this evening.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Besides that, I'd appreciate if others also can verify and report their
>>>>>> own performance experience with the current trunk, and provide
>some
>>>>>> feedback and opinion on the options I gave above.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, Ate
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> I would vote for a or b, but those depend on other input of impact from
>>>>> other users. Based on input so far, c seems risky to me because there is
>>>>> no
>>>>> way to know if the majority of people will have my performance or
>Ate's.
>>>>> Under normal circumstances, d would be a decent choice but with
>ApacheCON
>>>>> EU coming up I'm not sure it's good now. Choice e isn't my first choice
>>>>> but
>>>>> it's technically a choice and can be done if people think it's the best
>>>>> option.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>

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