Personally, I don't think it should be named Swiz, and I support a new
name. Crux seems fine to me.
- Josh
On Mon, Jul 15, 2019, 1:58 AM Carlos Rovira <carlosrov...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi Alex,
>
> your concerns about Crux name applies to the others like Basic or Jewel
> (just to name a few). If I search for "Jewel js" in google I get various
> Jewel libraries (same for Basic js). What makes Jewel appropriate for us is
> that is an internal name (internal branding) we use to refer to that
> concrete part of the entire Royale framework, so in then end is not about
> "jewel" for folks here their brain knows that we are talking all the time
> about "Apache Royale Jewel". One more thing we add using this kind of names
> is: 1) Names that has some marketing, and we can create icons, or more (it
> will be hard for me create a icon for FlexJS or SwizRoyale), 2) short names
> with some meaning inside the ecosystem and relation with a set of words
> that shares some meaning root. And moreover, since we changed to Royale
> name we are doing all the things in the same line of action what makes the
> naming decisions in Royale follow a strategy. It would be not consistent to
> come back to older name strategy like FlexJS or SwizRoyale. We should
> follow what we started and continue in that line.
>
> I must say I never thought in MXRoyale and SparkRoyale naming, since it was
> a work in progress that started to grow in Royale progressively and I was
> focused in other parts. For that cases, we could bring other names or not.
> I must say that I didn't take much time to think about it conceptually. We
> could do or not depending on what you want to do in that part.
>
> For Jewel, we didn't thought about it so much. I remember I started with
> other codename, but very soon I renamed and shared to Jewel explaining the
> motivations, thoughts, and meaning of that name. But, we didn't some king
> of name process for it
>
> In the case of Crux. I think it could not be "Crux",I like for the
> shortness and meaning, but could be other better options. What I don't like
> is bring as "Swiz" or "SwizRoyale". The first because is not Swiz (as I
> explained Swiz is for Flex) and SwizRoyale is for me very long and does not
> have a meaning inside of what we are doing with the rest of Royale naming
> decision and marketing (making it very difficult to brand along with the
> rest of Royale parts for marketing and web).
>
> just my 2
>
> Carlos
>
>
>
> El lun., 15 jul. 2019 a las 6:30, Alex Harui (<aha...@adobe.com.invalid>)
> escribió:
>
> > Regarding naming, giving something a longer more descriptive name can
> also
> > make it harder to use and then folks start using the short name and then
> > there can be confusion again.
> >
> > AIUI, trademark issues are about confusion. Names like "Basic" and
> > "Jewel" don't appear to have uses that could be confusing. "Crux"
> appears
> > to be some sort of language thing for Java being brought over to JS, so
> my
> > concern is that someone may someday want Royale to support a Crux library
> > that is based on the Java thing.
> >
> > We are using MXRoyale and SparkRoyale as names for the emulations of
> > Flex's MX and Spark components. "SwizRoyale" would be consistent,
> > especially if the goal is to emulate Swiz and potentially get more of the
> > Swiz code officially contributed to Apache Royale. Having renamed lots
> of
> > FlexJS to Royale, I can tell you that renaming still takes time.
> >
> > My 2 cents,
> > -Alex
> >
> > On 7/12/19, 3:41 AM, "Carlos Rovira" <carlosrov...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Greg!
> >
> > great progress with the latest touches.
> >
> > My latest days was in Crux branch so for me is ok to do the merge I
> > think
> > we cover all the things needed like licensing and avoid name
> conflicts.
> > Even we always can improve any of those things over time. So it's ok.
> >
> > About the name: You're right, Apache Royale Crux is like other
> "parts"
> > in
> > Apache Royale, i.e Apache Royale Basic, Apache Royale Jewel, ....
> just
> > a
> > convenient name to refer a concrete part of the Apache Royale
> ecosystem
> > with a bit of meaning and other bit of marketing (I plan to create
> some
> > icon for the web in the future as I did with Jewel, and we can do
> some
> > graphics and more when we reach a good point with the actual
> > documentation
> > effort). One important thing for me with the name is to make it
> > different
> > to Swiz to avoid confusion on that part: Swiz is for Flex, while Crux
> > is
> > for Royale. So if people talks about Swiz it will be clear that is
> > about
> > the project for Apache Flex, while if talks about Crux is clear that
> > is for
> > Apache Royale. The same happens at major level with Apache Flex and
> > Apache
> > Royale project.
> >
> > So for me it's all ok.
> >
> > Thanks for the hard work in this regard Greg!
> >
> > Carlos
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > El vie., 12 jul. 2019 a las 9:31, Piotr Zarzycki (<
> > piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>)
> > escribió:
> >
> > > Hi Greg,
> > >
> > > Thanks for update. I'm having again more important tasks and that
> is
> > why I
> > > didn't start release process yet. It looks like I will have for
> sure
> > 2 full
> > > working days to start process on upcoming Wednesday. If you make it
> > till
> > > that time it would be great, if not let's stay on the branch.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Piotr
> > >
> > > pt., 12 lip 2019 o 07:26 Greg Dove <greg.d...@gmail.com>
> napisał(a):
> > >
> > > > Just a quick update...
> > > >
> > > > I just fixed the ant builds for the 3 simple crux examples in the
> > branch,
> > > > which were not working yet.
> > > >
> > > > There will continue to be improvements and fixes over time, but I
> > > actually
> > > > think it's at a state where it could be merged into develop.
> > Unless there
> > > > is a reason not to, I plan to do this by start of next week.
> > > > This should not impact anyone else because it is something new,
> > there are
> > > > no changes to anything already present.
> > > >
> > > > In terms of the name as 'Crux', so far I had feedback from one
> > person to
> > > > give the naming some more thought, mainly because of the
> > possibility for
> > > > name conflicts with other libraries.
> > > > Carlos suggested to me that we should always use 'Apache Royale
> > Crux' in
> > > > terms of a general reference or to introduce it for the first
> > time, and
> > > > then (iirc) 'Crux' by itself only in a very clear Apache Royale
> > context,
> > > > which avoids naming conflicts. As I understand it, this type of
> > issue is
> > > > similar to some other things from the past.
> > > >
> > > > So far I don't see anything holding back a merge. But please let
> > me know
> > > if
> > > > there is anything else.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > -Greg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 3:35 AM Josh Tynjala <
> > joshtynj...@bowlerhat.dev>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Interesting! I didn't know that the capture phase worked for
> > > non-bubbling
> > > > > events. Good to know. Thanks for looking into it and sharing
> your
> > > > findings,
> > > > > Greg.
> > > > >
> > > > > - Josh
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Jul 4, 2019, 11:12 PM Greg Dove <greg.d...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Josh,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For the addedToStage stuff:
> > > > > > You made me look! Swiz does not actually use the ADDED event,
> > it
> > > > > definitely
> > > > > > does use ADDED_TO_STAGE by default, but you're absolutely
> > right, this
> > > > > does
> > > > > > not bubble.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I did not pay too much attention to the 'bubbling' side of
> > things
> > > > > because I
> > > > > > could see it working in flash and just assumed that's what
> was
> > > > happening.
> > > > > > But it is actually being listened to as a capture phase
> event.
> > And
> > > that
> > > > > > does give the same outward impression (without looking too
> > closely)
> > > as
> > > > if
> > > > > > it were bubbling in this case.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I even resorted to a quick test in Adobe Animate to verify:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > import flash.display.Sprite;
> > > > > > import flash.events.Event;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > var sprite:Sprite = new Sprite();
> > > > > > sprite.name ='1';
> > > > > > function onAdded(event:Event):void{
> > > > > > trace('added' ,event.target.name)
> > > > > > }
> > > > > > function onRemoved(event:Event):void{
> > > > > > trace('removed' ,event.target.name)
> > > > > > }
> > > > > >
> > > > > > sprite.addEventListener(Event.ADDED_TO_STAGE, onAdded, true);
> > > > > > sprite.addEventListener(Event.REMOVED_FROM_STAGE, onRemoved,
> > true);
> > > > > >
> > > > > > var sprite2:Sprite = new Sprite();
> > > > > > sprite2.name = '2'
> > > > > >
> > > > > > var sprite3:Sprite = new Sprite();
> > > > > > sprite3.name = '3'
> > > > > >
> > > > > > addChild(sprite);
> > > > > > sprite.addChild(sprite2)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > sprite2.addChild(sprite3);
> > > > > >
> > > > > > //remove the child tree
> > > > > > sprite.removeChild(sprite2)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > /*
> > > > > > trace output:
> > > > > > added 2
> > > > > > added 3
> > > > > > removed 2
> > > > > > removed 3
> > > > > > */
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So I updated the stage events emulator to support this.
> > > > > 'removedFromStage'
> > > > > > now also works in capture phase on the strand that the bead
> is
> > on for
> > > > > child
> > > > > > event targets that were removed.
> > > > > > In terms of the names of the events... that is quite easy to
> > change.
> > > > But
> > > > > > whatever we decide on, I just need to add as a COMPILE::JS
> > variation
> > > > to
> > > > > > the 'default' setupEventType/teardownEventType in the Config
> > class
> > > for
> > > > > Crux
> > > > > > to account for what would now be a difference between SWF and
> > JS
> > > (which
> > > > > is
> > > > > > fine by me, I only started with the same names by trying to
> > match how
> > > > > > things worked in swf as they were). So far it does work the
> > same
> > > > between
> > > > > > swf and js builds, although there is only one simple example
> > that
> > > > builds
> > > > > > for both which I have tested with.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In terms of the name of the bead, also that can be whatever
> > people
> > > > think
> > > > > > makes sense. I put JS in the name because one of the builds
> > works for
> > > > > both
> > > > > > swf and js. And seeing that a bead is for JS only is maybe
> > helpful to
> > > > > > know.. although I have always wondered whether it would make
> > sense to
> > > > > have
> > > > > > compiler switches in mxml - some sort of 'transparent'
> > enclosing tag
> > > > > > similar to how a COMPILE::JS { code here } compile block
> > works in
> > > > > > actionscript. I don't know it that makes sense.... something
> > like
> > > that
> > > > > > could mean that the swf build does not get the unnecessary
> bead
> > > (which
> > > > > does
> > > > > > nothing in swf anyway)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks heaps for the prompts on these things.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Greg
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 5:49 AM Carlos Rovira <
> > > carlosrov...@apache.org>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Andrew,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > good point! That's without doubt another new point to bring
> > to :
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - Royale-docs: We can follow most of the documentation
> > available
> > > here
> > > > > [1]
> > > > > > > - Examples: In this case I don't see a Tour app since the
> > use cases
> > > > are
> > > > > > > very direct and can be exposed in few examples.
> > > > > > > Greg already provide 3 examples that shows all the things
> > currently
> > > > > > > developed here [2]. I think we'll need to do soon a blog
> > example
> > > > > > > covering Crux too that could be one of those or a new one.
> > For
> > > > example
> > > > > > TODO
> > > > > > > List example would be a good one to apply Crux ;)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [1]
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fswizframework.jira.com%2Fwiki%2Fspaces%2FSWIZ%2Foverview&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C035b7ab7f40c4131de8e08d706b57003%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636985248684334180&sdata=L%2F9IvTJMCfHCShsWdMfqEI4cwtHCKR%2Fuplhw98MkYVM%3D&reserved=0
> > > > > > > [2]
> > > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fapache%2Froyale-asjs%2Ftree%2Ffeature%2FCrux%2Fexamples%2Fcrux&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C035b7ab7f40c4131de8e08d706b57003%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636985248684334180&sdata=bNyYr8j%2Bzd7b9pfgWh1YZjkoaykLIPlXkn3OvFHTDBM%3D&reserved=0
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So many work there too to make it all avaialble to Apache
> > Royale
> > > > users
> > > > > as
> > > > > > > easy as possible ;)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > El jue., 4 jul. 2019 a las 18:46, Andrew Wetmore (<
> > > > cottag...@gmail.com
> > > > > >)
> > > > > > > escribió:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is great.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > However, even with the original Swiz I found the
> > documentation
> > > > quite
> > > > > > thin
> > > > > > > > and that it made a lot of assumptions about what a
> general
> > > > developer
> > > > > > > might
> > > > > > > > know and need to know. This site [1] made an attempt
> about
> > ten
> > > > years
> > > > > > ago
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > improve on an intro to Swiz. What plans are in the works
> > to not
> > > > only
> > > > > > > > provide Crux, but make it welcoming and accessible? Tour
> de
> > > Crux??
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [1]
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdeshartman.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F02%2F07%2Ffirst-swiz%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C035b7ab7f40c4131de8e08d706b57003%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636985248684334180&sdata=c%2FozLDlAKqhuTfUTmtodH868g5%2BHoJ1OCX2z6T47DpE%3D&reserved=0
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 1:17 PM Josh Tynjala <
> > > > > joshtynj...@bowlerhat.dev
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Cool stuff, Greg and Carlos!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > One concern: In Flash, the "addedToStage" event does
> not
> > > bubble.
> > > > > It's
> > > > > > > > > actually the "added" event that bubbles and is used by
> > > frameworks
> > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > Swiz, Cairngorm, Robotlegs, etc.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > To avoid potential confusion for people migrating an
> > existing
> > > app
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > Flex/Flash that might already listen for that event
> (and
> > > wouldn't
> > > > > > > expect
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > to bubble), I'd recommend using a different name than
> > > > > "addedToStage".
> > > > > > > It
> > > > > > > > > could be "added", like Flash. Or it could even have a
> > new name
> > > > > that's
> > > > > > > > > similar to "addedToStage", but is more relevant to
> > Royale.
> > > Royale
> > > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > > have a "stage", so that name feels a bit out of place
> to
> > me
> > > > anyway.
> > > > > > > Maybe
> > > > > > > > > "addedToApplication" or something like that.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > - Josh
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2019, 11:11 PM Greg Dove <
> > greg.d...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Just a quick advance notice that we are getting
> > something
> > > very
> > > > > > > similar
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > Swiz before too long.
> > > > > > > > > > There is a new branch called feature/Crux
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > We can still explore other possible ways to
> > incorporate Swiz
> > > > code
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > Royale
> > > > > > > > > > (we have looked at having the code donated in the
> > past), but
> > > > for
> > > > > > now
> > > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > > > least it is as a derivative work, differentiated by
> > name as
> > > > > 'Crux'
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > hence the name of the branch. 'Crux' means a main or
> > pivotal
> > > > > point
> > > > > > -
> > > > > > > > > > something important - and a common English expression
> > that
> > > can
> > > > > > > express
> > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > is when someone says ""the crux of the matter" - it
> > means an
> > > > > > > important
> > > > > > > > > > thing to focus on.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The name is what it is now - it is short and has a
> > powerful
> > > > > > meaning.
> > > > > > > > But
> > > > > > > > > > certainly we can review that too.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The branch has the beginnings of the original Swiz
> > > > functionality
> > > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > > supports metadata driven Injection (including runtime
> > Binding
> > > > > > > > Injection),
> > > > > > > > > > EventHandlers, main Dispatcher etc.
> > > > > > > > > > Those things are already shown in 3 examples [1] in
> > > > examples/crux
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > branch, (but I did not check the ant builds for those
> > yet- I
> > > > will
> > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > that). Beyond those features, I have not ventured far
> > yet,
> > > and
> > > > > > > perhaps
> > > > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > > of the others may not be relevant for Royale.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In case it's useful elsewhere, there is also a new
> > > > JSStageEvents
> > > > > > > > 'stage
> > > > > > > > > > events' simulator bead which works from the main
> > application
> > > > > level,
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > provides bubbling 'addedToStage' events which Crux
> > listens to
> > > > at
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > top
> > > > > > > > > > level. These can be filtered (so not everything
> > generates the
> > > > > > events,
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > example). Not sure if that might be useful for other
> > things,
> > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > mentioning it for now... It does dispatch
> > 'removedFromStage'
> > > as
> > > > > > well,
> > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > too late for bubbling, so I will investigate if I can
> > do
> > > > > something
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > bit
> > > > > > > > > > sneaky to see if I can make that work. Otherwise it
> is
> > always
> > > > > > > possible
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > add removedFromStage listeners directly to the
> > target of
> > > > > interest
> > > > > > > > > inside
> > > > > > > > > > an 'addedToStage' listener.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I expect there will be bugs, and I of course there
> > will be
> > > many
> > > > > > > things
> > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > can continue to improve, so this is just an early
> > > announcement
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > your
> > > > > > > > > > awareness. Carlos sponsored a large chunk of my time
> > on this,
> > > > so
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > him to thank for that, but I have also contributed a
> > lot of
> > > my
> > > > > own
> > > > > > > > time,
> > > > > > > > > > and will continue to do so. Thanks also to Alex for
> > recent
> > > > > guidance
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > licencing issues, this was uncharted territory for
> me.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Anyhow, Carlos will, I am sure, provide more info, he
> > is very
> > > > > > > familiar
> > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > Swiz from the past.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > -Greg
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fapache%2Froyale-asjs%2Ftree%2Ffeature%2FCrux%2Fexamples%2Fcrux&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C035b7ab7f40c4131de8e08d706b57003%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636985248684334180&sdata=bNyYr8j%2Bzd7b9pfgWh1YZjkoaykLIPlXkn3OvFHTDBM%3D&reserved=0
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Andrew Wetmore
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcottage14.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C035b7ab7f40c4131de8e08d706b57003%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636985248684344178&sdata=4EP7gIFpNPp8Rr%2FY1ERyDEulDZ57u6wdMfy2SrE9pDU%3D&reserved=0
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Carlos Rovira
> > > > > > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C035b7ab7f40c4131de8e08d706b57003%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636985248684344178&sdata=IP6M8EGdel0m2VTao7xjlwcOThJf9sbIlyPb6e9iGlM%3D&reserved=0
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Piotr Zarzycki
> > >
> > > Patreon: *
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C035b7ab7f40c4131de8e08d706b57003%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636985248684344178&sdata=x7QeUYMQsplBRKeCchiDNpY366ZbLLHc2TSH05XrI2A%3D&reserved=0
> > > <
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C035b7ab7f40c4131de8e08d706b57003%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636985248684344178&sdata=x7QeUYMQsplBRKeCchiDNpY366ZbLLHc2TSH05XrI2A%3D&reserved=0
> > >*
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carlos Rovira
> >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C035b7ab7f40c4131de8e08d706b57003%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636985248684344178&sdata=IP6M8EGdel0m2VTao7xjlwcOThJf9sbIlyPb6e9iGlM%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> http://about.me/carlosrovira
>
