I agree with Sheng and William deeply. `Community Over Codes` is the best word for Apache Way describing, podlings should not only make the license right.
ShenYu copies documents from ShardingSphere's have been for a long time. I reminded ShenYu community once before, but the community only added reference statement to one of the documents reminded at that time[1], and the other dozen documents were not added. I remind again recently, that first action of ShenYu community is still to add reference statements to solve the license issue[2]. Frankly speaking, as a podling, it is not recommended. ShenYu community needs to consider the goal of project is for ASF brand and reputation or agree with Apache culture. If the latter, please do the own community way, not copy from other community. As an ASF member, I will continue to pay attention to the podlings which recognition of Apache culture and the practice of Apache way. I hope Shenyu community can make changes. [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-shenyu-website/commit/c6f1971d412b267a06dde973df4f6892b6685c1a [2] https://github.com/apache/incubator-shenyu-website/pull/485 On 2022/03/19 02:11:20 Willem Jiang wrote: > I already made a very clear statement in the last ALC Shenzhen team > meeting, when ShaoYu brought this kind question up. > Please don't copy the code from other projects even if you are the > writer, it adds the maintenance burden to your code. > > BTW, > > License compliance is the basic rule we need to follow , but there are > some other practices like "upstream first" to help your project grow > fast. > > Willem Jiang > > Twitter: willemjiang > Weibo: 姜宁willem > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 9:23 AM Sheng Wu <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hi > > > > I would like to say great to see you are beginning to re-words these. > > > > > After discussing with our mentors, we decided to rewrite these > > > documentations. I have started a new thread [1] to call for volunteers > > > > Notice, PMC should take this responsibility, I don't mean PMC member is not > > volunteer, just want to highlight, this should be a community decision. > > > > > For shenyu-agent codes, we added license and notice of ShardingSphere > > > [8] first. The further handling of these codes is still under > > > discussion with our mentors. > > > > Considering you mentioned this, you should know > > I have talked with Liang from ShardingSphere directly about this agent, and > > I have noticed this agent(from ShardingSphere to Shenyu) for a very long > > time(2 years at least). > > This agent clearly has referred to how SkyWalking's agent works. From how > > plugins work to even some codes and class names(such as core interceptors) > > are the same logically. I am not going to pursue whether there was/is a > > code copy behavior from SkyWalking, and believe none of SkyWalking PMC > > will, but the Shenyu community should know the risk. If someone audits your > > codes, and SkyWalking PMC received reports, we have to respond. > > > > Besides the codes, from a tech perspective, I shared the same idea with > > ShardingSphere, as generally, this agent was from when Yu Xiao worked(paid > > work) for ShardingSphere. The agent tech should not be used in this way, > > you have controlled all your source codes, integrate these APIs directly in > > the kernel to report telemetry(or others) definitely make the codes better > > and have less risk when you need other agents. Shenyu has not been widely > > used yet, for now, I believe one day when Shenyu and SkyWalking come > > across, we highly likely could receive agent-conflict reports, and a > > heads-up warning, SkyWalking would only recommend removing Shenyu's native > > agent, if they want to SkyWalking, because of the above history. > > > > ____ > > > > As a summary of the above, no matter from doc and code perspective, you > > should deeply know, even referring(including a copy) to other project > > codes(in or out of ASF) should be a very serious and have-to-be-done thing. > > In the open-source, sharing and linking projects together are the key > > points, and this is why OSS is powerful, not just because you have N > > features, you can't cover all. No matter what you think you have to copy, > > discuss with the original team, follow their recommendations. > > **License requirement is the lowest requirement**, you could win in a > > licensing fight as APLv2/MIT licenses are so easy to follow, they can't > > query you, but lost friends in a larger community. > > ASF's `Community Over Codes` is said again and again by everyone and every > > time when you share the project, but try to understand it, people in your > > and other communities are what matter. > > > > > > On 2022/03/18 12:37:05 Zhang Yonglun wrote: > > > Hi Sheng, > > > > > > We appreciate your guidance to the ShenYu community from the > > > perspective of IPMC. > > > > > > After discussing with our mentors, we decided to rewrite these > > > documentations. I have started a new thread [1] to call for volunteers > > > to rewrite the documentations base on how ShenYu as a community is > > > running and their own understanding of the Apache way. Our mentor > > > Willem also provided detailed guidance on documentations in there. We > > > will proceed very carefully to ensure the new documentations meet > > > expectations by several actions: > > > > > > 1. The ASF offical [2][3][4][5][6][7] documentations should be the > > > main reference for our community documentations. I suggest the > > > volunteers write the documentations in this way, it will be better for > > > us to understand the Apache way. > > > 2. Call for our contributors to help review the new documentations. > > > This action will go a long way in helping us understand how ASF works, > > > and is a good opportunity to learn the Apache way. We'll take > > > advantage of the documentations to further guide our practice. > > > 3. Make sure don't copy graphs from any documents, we need to read and > > > understand those words first. Then we can write with our own words. > > > > > > For shenyu-agent codes, we added license and notice of ShardingSphere > > > [8] first. The further handling of these codes is still under > > > discussion with our mentors. We also would like to bring this issue to > > > an online community meeting for discussion. The eventual possibilities > > > include removing or redesigning these codes. > > > > > > For learning the Apache way and how ASF works, our mentors gave a lot > > > of advice, and we will enhance our learning from now. Thanks again so > > > much for helping us build a better community! > > > > > > > > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/xh167o3r449lvf82hn4lnkqgmz6rbmr9 > > > [2] How it works: https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html > > > [3] Community guide：https://community.apache.org/about/ > > > [4] Consensus > > > building：https://community.apache.org/committers/consensusBuilding.html > > > [5] Code of conduct: > > > https://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct.html > > > [6] Contributor guide: https://community.apache.org/newcomers/ > > > [7] Committer guide: https://community.apache.org/committers/ > > > [8] https://lists.apache.org/thread/g3md34hsoh7gc0ojjlmt10qnqtln9jjp > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Zhang Yonglun > > > Apache ShenYu (Incubating) > > > Apache ShardingSphere > > > > > > Sheng Wu <[email protected]> 于2022年3月18日周五 11:03写道： > > > > > > > > Hi Shenyu community > > > > > > > > I noticed this thread, from the incubator level discussion. > > > > > > > > The key point of incubating a new project is to teach them to > > > > understand and follow the Apache Way and Culture. > > > > > > > > The document is a reflection of your understanding, right now, there > > > > are a lot of documents copying from another TLP(no matter > > > > ShardingSphere is involved or not). Then it could make the incubator > > > > concerned, whether this community has been learning the Apache way, or > > > > just simply copy from there. > > > > > > > > I am not sure whether your mentors told you, don't copy things from a > > > > TLP, including docs, codes, and ways to work, because every TLS has > > > > their PMC to make the decision, and decisions were made according to > > > > the history of the project. You could learn from their PMC members as > > > > they would share with you the context of their principles. > > > > > > > > I knew ShardingSphere PMC has raised this from the License perspective, > > > > but I am not focusing on the incubating process. > > > > > > > > So, I hope you(Shenyu community) could write the whole thing on your > > > > own based on how Shenyu as a community is running, and preferences from > > > > your own understanding of the Apache way. > > > > > > > > Sheng Wu > > > > Incubator PMC > > > > > > > > On 2022/03/17 10:01:27 Zhang Yonglun wrote: > > > > > Hi Liang, > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your feedback. > > > > > > > > > > I made fixes [1][2][3] for the docs you pointed out which don't have a > > > > > license listed. > > > > > > > > > > These fixes include adding license and notice of ShardingSphere, and > > > > > adding a note referencing ShardingSphere to the documentation content. > > > > > > > > > > For the agent module, as you mentioned I have fixed it yesterday [4]. > > > > > > > > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-shenyu-website/pull/485 > > > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/incubator-shenyu-website/pull/486 > > > > > [3] https://github.com/apache/incubator-shenyu-website/pull/487 > > > > > [4] https://github.com/apache/incubator-shenyu/pull/3045 > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Zhang Yonglun > > > > > Apache ShenYu (Incubating) > > > > > Apache ShardingSphere > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] <[email protected]> 于2022年3月17日周四 11:07写道： > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear ShenYu community, > > > > > > > > > > > > I noticed that ShenYu agent code and community documentation were > > > > > > copied > > > > > > directly from ShardingSphere. > > > > > > > > > > > > For agent module issue, ShenYu code[1] is almost same as > > > > > > ShardingSphere > > > > > > code[2]. > > > > > > I saw your PR[3], which added ShardingSphere copyright to the > > > > > > LICENSE and > > > > > > NITICE file yesterday. > > > > > > But as an incubator project, I suggest that the team design and code > > > > > > according to your own original and independent ideas. > > > > > > If you think the agent module is suitable for ShenYu, copy and > > > > > > minor rewrite is not good enough, it is best to import it from > > > > > > ShardingSphere as a library; If the agent module of ShardingSphere > > > > > > is not > > > > > > good enough, we can discuss how to improve it in > > > > > > [email protected] or GitHub issue list. > > > > > > For open source way, contribute back to upstream maybe the best > > > > > > ,especially > > > > > > in incubator project, understanding and practicing to Apache way is > > > > > > import. > > > > > > > > > > > > For the community documentation issue, it is unnecessary copy from > > > > > > ShardingSphere, please write your own documentation and follow them > > > > > > as your > > > > > > own community way. > > > > > > I saw the PR[4] and [5] rewrite the part of documentation from > > > > > > ShardingSphere. The PR[4] had merged half year ago, which means > > > > > > that ShenYu > > > > > > use ShardingSphere's documentation early. > > > > > > However, there are still many documents copied directly from > > > > > > ShardingSphere. Please fix them as well. > > > > > > The documentation which copied from ShardingSphere are: > > > > > > Shenyu [6] copied from ShardingSphere [7] > > > > > > Shenyu [8] copied from ShardingSphere [9] > > > > > > Shenyu [10] copied from ShardingSphere [11] > > > > > > Shenyu [12] copied from ShardingSphere [13] > > > > > > Shenyu [14] copied from ShardingSphere [15] > > > > > > Shenyu [16] copied from ShardingSphere [17] > > > > > > Shenyu [18] copied from ShardingSphere [19] > > > > > > Shenyu [20] copied from ShardingSphere [21] > > > > > > Shenyu [22] copied from ShardingSphere [23] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-shenyu/tree/master/shenyu-agent > > > > > > [2] > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/shardingsphere/tree/master/shardingsphere-agent > > > > > > [3] https://github.com/apache/incubator-shenyu/pull/3045 > > > > > > [4] > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-shenyu-website/commit/c6f1971d412b267a06dde973df4f6892b6685c1a > > > > > > [5] > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-shenyu-website/commit/365c1edb17d75e3d0dbc11633dc8234f75a3bea4 > > > > > > [6] https://shenyu.apache.org/community/contributor > > > > > > [7] > > > > > > https://shardingsphere.apache.org/community/en/contribute/contributor/ > > > > > > [8] https://shenyu.apache.org/community/release-guide > > > > > > [9] > > > > > > https://shardingsphere.apache.org/community/en/contribute/release/ > > > > > > [10] https://shenyu.apache.org/community/vote-committer > > > > > > [11] https://shardingsphere.apache.org/community/en/contribute/vote/ > > > > > > [12] https://shenyu.apache.org/community/two-fa > > > > > > [13] https://shardingsphere.apache.org/community/en/contribute/2fa/ > > > > > > [14] https://shenyu.apache.org/zh/community/subscribe-email > > > > > > [15] > > > > > > https://shardingsphere.apache.org/community/cn/contribute/subscribe/ > > > > > > [16] https://shenyu.apache.org/zh/community/contributor > > > > > > [17] > > > > > > https://shardingsphere.apache.org/community/cn/contribute/contributor/ > > > > > > [18] https://shenyu.apache.org/zh/community/release-guide > > > > > > [19] > > > > > > https://shardingsphere.apache.org/community/cn/contribute/release/ > > > > > > [20] https://shenyu.apache.org/zh/community/vote-committer > > > > > > [21] https://shardingsphere.apache.org/community/cn/contribute/vote/ > > > > > > [22] https://shenyu.apache.org/zh/community/two-fa > > > > > > [23] https://shardingsphere.apache.org/community/cn/contribute/2fa/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > Liang Zhang (John) > > > > > > Apache ShardingSphere > > > > > > > > >
