Ok nope, since that only happens with WebAppContext, not ServletContext
(the parent class). whew :)

On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 10:33 AM Gus Heck <[email protected]> wrote:

> WRT the JettySolrRunner tangent, I wonder if our lack of a web.xml and
> thus lack of metadata-complete=true in web.xml means that we wind up
> scanning for annotations?
>
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 10:06 AM Gus Heck <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-15590
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 9:44 AM Gus Heck <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Ok well it would be interesting to compare quickstarting vs
>>> JettySolrRunner, and reading up on quickstart
>>> <https://webtide.com/jetty-9-quick-start/> gives ideas about
>>> pre-building the quickstart xml, but web.xml for JettySolrRunner is a
>>> tangent. Either way we are still in a container and I think I hear some
>>> agreement that something should be done about the dispatch here, and both
>>> of you seem to agree that an actual servlet would make more sense than a
>>> filter, so I'll make a ticket/pr to make it easier to track & easier to
>>> read the code.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 1:41 AM Mark Miller <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The downside to respecting web.xml and making JettySolrServer serve a
>>>> webapp is that loading a webapp is very expensive and slow in comparison.
>>>> JettySolrServer actually starts up extremely quickly. It’s almost more
>>>> appealing to change the Server to use the JettySolrServer strategy. It’s so
>>>> slow to load a webapp because of all the things it needs to support and
>>>> scan jars for - in a kind of JavaEE situation, though not as bad. Jetty
>>>> QuickStart does improve the situation if used at least. But there is really
>>>> no need to eat the whole webapp standard for a non webapp app to have Jetty
>>>> manage more of the dispatching. I always wondering about the motivation /
>>>> upside of hacking in a straight servlet myself. But for a non webapp stuck
>>>> in a servlet container, it’s actually a beautiful move that side steps a
>>>> bunch of slow crap even better than the QuickStart pushes ever will, and
>>>> still allows for matching any support we would want.
>>>>
>>>> The HttpSolrCallV2 extending HttpSolrCall is horrendous. Personally, I
>>>> made a slim SolrCall base class that each extends. All that logic is hairy
>>>> enough to follow without them interleaving and sharing in a kind of wild
>>>> collaboration. It’s pretty unfortunate they both still exist.
>>>>
>>>> You are right, leaving that path in that state is a poor idea. If there
>>>> was anything that could be considered the “hot” path, it’s right there -
>>>> feverishly checking and ripping up streams for anyone and anything. Is a
>>>> core? A collection? A handler? Maybe a V2 handler? What I’d we cut the path
>>>> down? Do a dance? Treat the string like a date and see if that works.
>>>>
>>>> So yeah, agreed, nobody does or would dispatch this way, you have to
>>>> frog boil into it. It’s slow, almost incomprehensible, and incredibly good
>>>> at holding onto life, even building on it. But being a webapp and parsing
>>>> web.xml has little to do with dispatching and having sensible http api that
>>>> doesn’t work like it’s a perl compiler.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I can’t imagine trying to trace through that code with any
>>>> solid feeling about having a handle on it via inspection. But just like
>>>> Perl, if you debug / trace log the hell out of it, it is all actually
>>>> pretty simple to adjust and reign in.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> MRM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 10:39 PM Gus Heck <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So I'm not interested in *adhering* to anything here, just using stuff
>>>>> where it helps... I see tools sitting on the shelf, already bought and 
>>>>> paid
>>>>> for and carried with us to every job but then they sit in the back of the
>>>>> truck mostly unused... and (I think) they look useful.
>>>>>
>>>>> This should not be seen as in any way advocating a return to war file
>>>>> deployment or "choose your container". All of what I would suggest should
>>>>> likely be compatible with a jetty startup controlled by our code (I assume
>>>>> we can convince it to read web.xml properly when doing so). Certainly 
>>>>> point
>>>>> out anything that would interfere with that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here we sit in a container that is a tool box containing:
>>>>>
>>>>>    - A nice mechanism for initializing stuff at the application
>>>>>    level, (ServletContextListener) and a well defined guarantee that it 
>>>>> runs
>>>>>    before any filter or servlet,
>>>>>    - An automatic shutdown mechanism that it will call for us on
>>>>>    graceful shutdown (ServletContextListner again).
>>>>>    - A nice layered filter chain mechanism which could have been used
>>>>>    to layer in things like tracing and authentication, and close shields 
>>>>> etc
>>>>>    as small succinct filters rather than weaving them into an ever more
>>>>>    complex filter & call class.
>>>>>    - In more recent versions of the spec, for listeners defined in
>>>>>    web.xml the order is also guaranteed.
>>>>>    - Servlet classes that are *already* set up to distinguish http
>>>>>    verbs automatically when desired
>>>>>
>>>>> So why is this better? Because monster classes that do a hundred
>>>>> things are really hard to understand and maintain. Small methods, small
>>>>> classes whenever possible. I also suspect that there may be some gains in
>>>>> performance to be had if we rely more on the container (which will already
>>>>> be dispatching based on path) to choose our code paths (at least at a
>>>>> coarse level) and then have less custom dispatch logic executed on *every*
>>>>> request
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously I'm wrong and if the net result is less performant to any
>>>>> significant degree forget it that wouldn't be worth it. (wanted:
>>>>> standardized solr benchmarks)
>>>>>
>>>>> There WILL be complications with v2 because it is a subclass of
>>>>> HttpSolrCall, which will take a bit of teasing apart for sure. Ideally it
>>>>> should be a separate servlet from v1, but we don't want to duplicate code
>>>>> either... so work to do there...
>>>>>
>>>>> I think an incremental approach is necessary since very few of us have
>>>>> the bandwidth to more than that and certainly it becomes difficult to find
>>>>> anyone with the time to review large changes. What I have thus far is
>>>>> stable with respect to the tests, and simplifies some stuff already which
>>>>> is why I chose this point to start the discussion
>>>>>
>>>>> But yeah, look at what I did and say what you like and what you don't.
>>>>> :).
>>>>>
>>>>> -Gus
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 9:42 PM David Smiley <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sounds like an interesting adventure last weekend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm unclear what the point of going this direction is; my instinct is
>>>>>> to go the opposite direction.  You seem to suggest there are some
>>>>>> simplification/organization benefits, which I love, so I'll need to look 
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> what you've done to judge that for myself.  Yes Jetty supports the 
>>>>>> Servlet
>>>>>> spec but we need not embrace it.  Adhering to that is useful if you have 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> generic web app that can be deployed to a container of the user's
>>>>>> convenience/choosing.  No doubt this is why Solr started this way, and 
>>>>>> why
>>>>>> the apps I built in my early days adhered to that spec.  But since 6.0, 
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> view Solr as self-contained and more supportable if the project makes 
>>>>>> these
>>>>>> decisions and thus not needlessly constrain itself as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is super weird to me that SolrDispatchFilter is a Servlet *Filter*
>>>>>> and not a *Servlet* itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, I suspect there may be complications in changes here relating
>>>>>> to Solr's v1 vs v2 API.  And most definitely also what you discovered --
>>>>>> JettySolrRunner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ~ David Smiley
>>>>>> Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer
>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwsmiley
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 11:37 AM Gus Heck <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *TLDR:* I've got a working branch
>>>>>>> <https://github.com/gus-asf/solr/tree/servlet-solr> where
>>>>>>> CoreContainer & our startup process is extracted from SolrDispatch 
>>>>>>> Filter.
>>>>>>> Do other folks think that is interesting enough that I should make a 
>>>>>>> JIRA
>>>>>>> and/or PR with intention to make this change?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Details:*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jetty is a servlet container, yet we more or less ignore it by
>>>>>>> stuffing everything into a single filter (almost, admin UI is served
>>>>>>> separately). I'm sure there are lots of historical reasons for this,
>>>>>>> probably including servlet containers and their specs were much less 
>>>>>>> mature
>>>>>>> when solr was first started. Maybe also the early authors were more 
>>>>>>> focused
>>>>>>> on making search work than leveraging what the container could do for 
>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>> (but I wasn't there for that so that's just a guess).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The result is that we have a couple of very large classes that are
>>>>>>> touched by almost every request, and they have a lot of conditional 
>>>>>>> logic
>>>>>>> trying to decide what the user is asking. Normally this sort of 
>>>>>>> dispatch is
>>>>>>> done by the container based on the request URL to direct it to the
>>>>>>> appropriate servlet. Solr does a LOT of different things so this code is
>>>>>>> extremely tricky and complex to understand. Specifically, I'm speaking 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> SolrDispatchFilter and HttpSolrCall, which are so inseparable that being
>>>>>>> two classes probably makes them harder to understand.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It seems to me (and this mail is asking if you agree) that these
>>>>>>> classes are long overdue for some subdivision. The most obvious thing to
>>>>>>> pull out is all the admin calls. Admin code paths really have little or
>>>>>>> nothing to do with query or update code paths since there are no 
>>>>>>> documents
>>>>>>> to route or sub-requests to some subset of nodes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The primary obstacle to any such separation and simplification is
>>>>>>> that most requests have some interaction with CoreContainer, and the 
>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>> it holds, and this is initialized and held by a field in
>>>>>>> SolrDispatchFilter. After spending a significant chunk of time reading 
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> code in the prior weeks and a timely and motivating conversation with 
>>>>>>> Eric
>>>>>>> Pugh, I dumped a chunk of my weekend into an experiment to see if I 
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> pull CoreContainer out of the dispatch filter, and leverage the 
>>>>>>> facilities
>>>>>>> of our servlet container.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That wasn't too terribly hard, but keeping JettySolrRunner happy was
>>>>>>> very confusing, and worrisome since I've realized it's not respecting 
>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>> web.xml at all, and any configuration in web.xml needs to be duplicated 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> our tests in JettySolrRunner (tangent alert)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The result is that CoreContainer is now held by a class called
>>>>>>> CoreService (please help me name things if you don't like my names :) ).
>>>>>>> CoreService is a ServletContextListener, appropriately configured in
>>>>>>> web.xml, and has a static method that can be used to get a reference to 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> CoreContainer corresponding to the ServletContext in which code wanting 
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> core container is running (this supports having multiple 
>>>>>>> JettySolrRunners
>>>>>>> in tests, though probably never has more than one CoreContainer in the
>>>>>>> running application)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I achieved this in 4 stages shown here:
>>>>>>> https://github.com/gus-asf/solr/tree/servlet-solr
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ignore the AdminServlet class, it's a placeholder, and can be
>>>>>>> subtracted without harm.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since the current state of the code in that branch is apparently
>>>>>>> test-stable (4 runs of check in a row passing, none slower than any run 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> 3 runs of main, both as low as 10.5 min if I don't continue working on 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> machine)...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do we want to push this refactor in now to avoid making a huge ball
>>>>>>> of changes that gets harder and harder to merge? The next push point 
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> probably be when AdminServlet was functional (if/when that happens) 
>>>>>>> (and we
>>>>>>> could not push that class for now).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you read this far, thanks :) I wasn't sure how feasible this
>>>>>>> would be so I felt the need to prove it to my self in code before 
>>>>>>> wasting
>>>>>>> your time, but please don't hesitate to point to costs I might be 
>>>>>>> missing
>>>>>>> or anything that looks like a mistake, or say why this was a total 
>>>>>>> waste of
>>>>>>> time :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Gus
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> http://www.needhamsoftware.com (work)
>>>>>>> http://www.the111shift.com (play)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> http://www.needhamsoftware.com (work)
>>>>> http://www.the111shift.com (play)
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> - Mark
>>>>
>>>> http://about.me/markrmiller
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://www.needhamsoftware.com (work)
>>> http://www.the111shift.com (play)
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://www.needhamsoftware.com (work)
>> http://www.the111shift.com (play)
>>
>
>
> --
> http://www.needhamsoftware.com (work)
> http://www.the111shift.com (play)
>


-- 
http://www.needhamsoftware.com (work)
http://www.the111shift.com (play)

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