-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

[This is getting a bit offtopic for [EMAIL PROTECTED] - any better place to 
continue?]

Karl Chen wrote:
>>>>>> On 2006-12-21 15:07 PST, Matthias Leisi writes:
> 
>     Matthias> However I'm not convinced any more that domain age
>     Matthias> alone will really be useful; it may make more sense
>     Matthias> to record the history of domains used, ie to have
>     Matthias> something like "date first seen", and not [only]
>     Matthias> "date registered". The two data points combined may
>     Matthias> be highly effective.
> 
> That is a good idea.  What do you think about a global database
> mapping domain => "date first seen"?  Would the size of the
> database be a problem?

I have no good educated guess on how many domains are actually found in
e-mails. But when remembering the discussion and issues around "domain
tasting" it would seem that the number of short-lived domains registered
by spammers is in the hundreds of thousands each month. Add to this the
millions of good-faith domains in all the cc and gTLDs.

Even if such a database would regularly pruned of domains not "seen"
over (let's say) four weeks, it would still contain several hundred
thousand entries. For ongoing updates and pruning, I would assume on
average five database operations (select, insert, update, delete) per
day (many more on heavily used domains, but a "long tail" distribution
can be expected).

Then there are practical issues: the DNS setup for such a system would
need to be distributed -- but there must be a feedback from the
distributed nameservers to a more-or-less central facility, and this
must happen in near-realtime. So it becomes a lot more complex than
regular DNSWL/DNSBL operations.

Additionally, it would again be easy to flood such a scheme with bogus
requests and is open to be gamed by spammers since it would effectively
be a read/write system as opposed to DNSWL/DNSBL which are read-only in
regular usage and do not make "call-outs" in response to queries made.

An alternative would be to not run this on a global / shared scale
(which is feasible when *not* doing the whois/cache dance, see below).
Then it would be a matter of an SA plugin which keeps the history of
domains seen in a local store (file or, most likely preferrable,
database-driven); however this would reduce the accuracy and reliability
of such a scheme (risk of false positives), especially on smaller systems.


> If we only need to check for valid registration, we could do
> a DNS SOA lookup instead of whois.

ACK. There are interesting differences between nameservers announced
through whois and through walking the DNS tree, but in order to
determine the "freshness", SOA lookups should be enough.

Despite the concerns above, I still believe a "domain establishedness
test" would be a powerful addition to the anti-spam toolset. Getting it
right is non-trivial, though.

- -- Matthias

- --
http://www.dnswl.org - Protect against false positives
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFFi6PSxbHw2nyi/okRAhqjAKCiPKnlk5qOvRIbo/M9/ioQ+RguzQCgy3il
NYn3+Y7mj+Eqfv/3xOxIMao=
=fMjD
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Reply via email to