So are there companies using it? And are they willing to contribute to maintaining it?
Twitter: https://twitter.com/holdenkarau Fight Health Insurance: https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/ <https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/?q=hk_email> Books (Learning Spark, High Performance Spark, etc.): https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9 <https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9> YouTube Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/user/holdenkarau Pronouns: she/her On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at 9:17 PM Ángel <angel.alvarez.pas...@gmail.com> wrote: > That would definitely affect companies using GraphX, but at least they’d > have the choice to migrate their code. > > I think that’s probably the way to go. > > El dom, 6 oct 2024 a las 6:09, Holden Karau (<holden.ka...@gmail.com>) > escribió: > >> So removing GraphX from Spark would not prevent GraphFrames from >> continuing, they could pick up the GraphX source and incorporate it into >> their project. >> >> Twitter: https://twitter.com/holdenkarau >> Fight Health Insurance: https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/ >> <https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/?q=hk_email> >> Books (Learning Spark, High Performance Spark, etc.): >> https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9 <https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9> >> YouTube Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/user/holdenkarau >> Pronouns: she/her >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at 5:22 PM Russell Jurney <russell.jur...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> A lot of people like me use GraphFrames for its connected components >>> implementation and its motif matching feature. I am willing to work on it >>> to keep it alive. They did a 0.8.3 release not too long ago. Please keep >>> GraphX alive. >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at 3:44 PM Mich Talebzadeh < >>> mich.talebza...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I added the user list as they may have vested interest here and and >>>> hopefully can contribute >>>> >>>> Few suggestions: >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. Data-Driven Decision Making: Return to the core metrics—analyze >>>> usage trends, performance benchmarks, and the actual impact on >>>> businesses >>>> that rely on GraphX. Objectivity can be restored by letting data speak >>>> louder than opinions so to speak. >>>> 2. Broaden the Discussion: Engage more stakeholders from diverse >>>> backgrounds (especially spark users) to bring in new perspectives and >>>> counterbalance the more vocal but potentially narrow interests of core >>>> maintainers or open-source contributors. >>>> 3. Define Clear Criteria for Decision Making: Agree on a set of >>>> objective criteria by which the project’s future will be judged. These >>>> could include market demand, contribution levels, maintenance costs, >>>> alternative solutions, and alignment with the overall Spark ecosystem >>>> goals. Some have already been covered. >>>> 4. Timely Conclusion of Discussions: Set a timeline for making a >>>> decision. Long, open-ended discussions tend to lose focus. Putting >>>> deadlines forces participants to focus on key issues and prevents >>>> endless >>>> debates. >>>> 5. Borrowing from commercial settings, it is often necessary for a >>>> strong leadership team to step in and make the final decision after >>>> considering the input. When the objectivity of discussions starts to >>>> wane, >>>> leadership needs to cut through the round discussions and steer towards >>>> action based on business and technical realities. >>>> >>>> >>>> HTH >>>> >>>> Mich Talebzadeh, >>>> >>>> Architect | Data Engineer | Data Science | Financial Crime >>>> PhD <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy> Imperial >>>> College London <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_College_London> >>>> London, United Kingdom >>>> >>>> >>>> view my Linkedin profile >>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mich-talebzadeh-ph-d-5205b2/> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://en.everybodywiki.com/Mich_Talebzadeh >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *Disclaimer:* The information provided is correct to the best of my >>>> knowledge but of course cannot be guaranteed . It is essential to note >>>> that, as with any advice, quote "one test result is worth one-thousand >>>> expert opinions (Werner >>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun>Von Braun >>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun>)". >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, 5 Oct 2024 at 06:26, Ángel <angel.alvarez.pas...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I completely agree with everyone here. I don’t think the issue is >>>>> deprecating it; to me, the problem lies in not providing a new and better >>>>> solution for handling graphs in Spark. In the past, I used GraphX via >>>>> GraphFrames for record linkage, and I found it both useful and effective. >>>>> Is there any discussion about a potential replacement? >>>>> >>>>> I’d be willing to help maintain GraphX, though I don’t have previous >>>>> experience with maintaining open-source projects. All I can promise is >>>>> good >>>>> intentions, willingness to learn and lots of energy and passion. Is that >>>>> enough? >>>>> >>>>> Btw, what's your take on this? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - >>>>> >>>>> GraphX will be deprecated in favor of a new graphing component, >>>>> SparkGraph, based on Cypher >>>>> <https://neo4j.com/developer/cypher-query-language/>, a much >>>>> richer graph language than previously offered by GraphX. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/data-analytics/introducing-spark-3-and-hadoop-3-on-dataproc-image-version-2-0 >>>>> >>>>> El sáb, 5 oct 2024 a las 2:17, Mark Hamstra (<markhams...@gmail.com>) >>>>> escribió: >>>>> >>>>>> As I wrote to Holden privately, I might well change my vote to be in >>>>>> favor of a deprecation label combined with some effective means of >>>>>> communicating that this doesn't mean the end for GraphX if interested >>>>>> contributors come forward to rescue it. I don't like either the idea >>>>>> of keeping unmaintained code and public APIs around (especially if >>>>>> there are problems with them) or the idea of removing Spark >>>>>> functionality just because no one has contributed to it for a while. A >>>>>> naked deprecation label feels somewhat drastic and pre-emptive to me. >>>>>> I don't expect that GraphX will be the last part of Spark to run the >>>>>> risk of death through neglect, and I think we need an effective means >>>>>> of encouraging resuscitation that a deprecation label on its own does >>>>>> not provide. On the other hand, if no one really is willing to come to >>>>>> the aid of GraphX or other neglected functionality given adequate >>>>>> warning of possible removal, I'm not then opposed to the usual >>>>>> deprecation and removal process. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 4:10 PM Sean Owen <sro...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > This is a reasonable discussion, but maybe the more practical point >>>>>> is: are you sure you want to block this unilaterally? This effectively >>>>>> makes a decision that GraphX cannot be removed for a long while. I'd >>>>>> understand it more if we had an active maintainer and/or active user >>>>>> proposing to veto, but my understanding is this is just a proposal to >>>>>> block >>>>>> this on behalf of some users, someone else who might do some work and >>>>>> hasn't to date for some reason. Add to that the fact that the 'pro' >>>>>> arguments all seem to be arguments for working on GraphFrames, and I find >>>>>> this somewhat drastic. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 5:23 PM Mark Hamstra <markhams...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> "You can't say nothing is removable until there are no users." >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> That is not what I am saying. Rather, I am countering what others >>>>>> seem >>>>>> >> to be suggesting: There are no users and no interest, therefore we >>>>>> can >>>>>> >> and should deprecate. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 3:10 PM Sean Owen <sro...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > I could flip this argument around. More strongly, not being >>>>>> deprecated means "won't be removed" and likewise implies support and >>>>>> development. I don't think either of the latter have been true for years. >>>>>> What suggests this will change? A todo list is not going to do anything, >>>>>> IMHO. >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > I'm also concerned about the cost of that, which I have >>>>>> observed. GraphX PRs are almost certainly not going to be reviewed >>>>>> because >>>>>> of its state. Deprecation both communicates that reality, and leaves an >>>>>> option open, whereas not deprecating forecloses that option for a while. >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > I don't think the question is, does anyone use it? because >>>>>> anyone can continue to use it -- in Spark 3.x for sure, and in 4.x if not >>>>>> removed. >>>>>> >> > You can't say nothing is removable until there are no users. >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > Also, why would GraphFrames not be the logical home of this >>>>>> going forward anyway? which I think is the subtext. >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 4:56 PM Mark Hamstra < >>>>>> markhams...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> I'm -1(*) because, while it technically means "might be removed >>>>>> in the >>>>>> >> >> future", I think developers and users are more prone to >>>>>> interpret >>>>>> >> >> something being marked as deprecated as "very likely will be >>>>>> removed >>>>>> >> >> in the future, so don't depend on this or waste your time >>>>>> contributing >>>>>> >> >> to its further development." I don't think the latter is what >>>>>> we want >>>>>> >> >> just because something hasn't been updated meaningfully in a >>>>>> while. >>>>>> >> >> There have been How To articles for GraphX and Graph Frames >>>>>> posted in >>>>>> >> >> the not too distant past, and the Google Search trend shows a >>>>>> pretty >>>>>> >> >> steady level of interest, not a decline to zero, so I don't >>>>>> think that >>>>>> >> >> it is accurate to declare that there is no use or interest in >>>>>> GraphX. >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> Unless retaining GraphX is imposing significant costs on >>>>>> continuing >>>>>> >> >> Spark development, I can't support deprecating GraphX. I can >>>>>> support >>>>>> >> >> encouraging GraphX and Graph Frames development through >>>>>> something like >>>>>> >> >> a To Do list or document of "What we'd like to see in the way of >>>>>> >> >> further development of Spark's graph processing capabilities" >>>>>> -- i.e., >>>>>> >> >> things that encourage and support new contributions to address >>>>>> any >>>>>> >> >> shortcomings in Spark's graph processing, not things that >>>>>> discourage >>>>>> >> >> contributions and use in the way that I believe simply declaring >>>>>> >> >> GraphX to be deprecated would. >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> On Sun, Sep 29, 2024 at 11:04 AM Holden Karau < >>>>>> holden.ka...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>> >> >> > Since we're getting close to cutting a 4.0 branch I'd like to >>>>>> float the idea of officially deprecating Graph X. What that would mean >>>>>> (to >>>>>> me) is we would update the docs to indicate that Graph X is deprecated >>>>>> and >>>>>> it's APIs may be removed at anytime in the future. >>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>> >> >> > Alternatively, we could mark it as "unmaintained and in >>>>>> search of maintainers" with a note that if no maintainers are found, we >>>>>> may >>>>>> remove it in a future minor version. >>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>> >> >> > Looking at the source graph X, I don't see any meaningful >>>>>> active development going back over three years*. There is even a thread >>>>>> on >>>>>> user@ from 2017 asking if graph X is maintained anymore, with no >>>>>> response from the developers. >>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>> >> >> > Now I'm open to the idea that GraphX is stable and "works as >>>>>> is" and simply doesn't require modifications but given the user thread >>>>>> I'm >>>>>> a little concerned here about bringing this API with us into Spark 4 if >>>>>> we >>>>>> don't have anyone signed up to maintain it. >>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>> >> >> > * Excluding globally applied changes >>>>>> >> >> > -- >>>>>> >> >> > Twitter: https://twitter.com/holdenkarau >>>>>> >> >> > Fight Health Insurance: https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/ >>>>>> >> >> > Books (Learning Spark, High Performance Spark, etc.): >>>>>> https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9 >>>>>> >> >> > YouTube Live Streams: >>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/user/holdenkarau >>>>>> >> >> > Pronouns: she/her >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >> >> To unsubscribe e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@spark.apache.org >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@spark.apache.org >>>>>> >>>>>>
