SPIP is updated.

On Wed, Jul 8, 2026 at 11:21 AM Parth Chandra <[email protected]> wrote:

> Thanks Cheng Pan!
> Updating the SPIP with Steve's suggestions.
>
>
> Parth
>
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2026 at 10:42 AM Cheng Pan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Peter and Parth for summarize the discussion, now I’m fine with
>> this SPIP given you provide several valid cases that OIDC approach does not
>> offer.
>>
>> For HADOOP-19906, on JDK 25, when kerberos is disabled, all threads see
>> login UGI, thus credential can correctly propagation; when kerberos is
>> enabled, issue happens. Since the goal of this SPIP is extending DT
>> framework to non-kerberos cases, it’s not a blocker. But from the user
>> perspective, a functionality, that works without kerberos, gets broken with
>> kerberos looks weird.
>>
>> Anyway, HADOOP-19906 has landed Hadoop branch-3.5 and will be delivered
>> in Hadoop 3.5.1 in a few months.
>>
>> >  Steve's suggestion is a real simplification. We can remove the
>> DirectTokenProvider trait and just change HadoopDelegationTokenManager.
>>
>> +1 for this direction.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Cheng Pan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 9, 2026, at 01:00, Parth Chandra <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Peter! You are correct CoarseGrainedExecutorBackend does wrap
>> SparkHadoopUtil.runAsSparkUser. However, as you pointed out, the end result
>> does not change.
>> You are also correct that HADOOP-19906 is an orthogonal issue and must be
>> addressed.
>>
>> Also, Steve's suggestion is a real simplification. We can remove the
>> DirectTokenProvider trait and just change HadoopDelegationTokenManager. We
>> sort of lose the explicit signal that the provider does not use Kerberos,
>> though that is now signalled by the provider indirectly, so we do not lose
>> much.
>>
>> Parth
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2026 at 8:59 AM Peter Toth <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks all for the great discussion.
>>>
>>> First, a small correction on the JDK 25 / Subject-propagation point. I
>>> went through the code and it doesn't seem quite right that "on executor
>>> task threads there is no active doAs() scope" because
>>> CoarseGrainedExecutorBackend wraps everything in
>>> SparkHadoopUtil.runAsSparkUser, which does createSparkUser().doAs(...).
>>> If I'm not mistaken what happens is that JEP 486 stops that Subject from
>>> propagating to the RPC/task threads, so getCurrentUser() falls back to the
>>> static login user, and the pushed credentials are read back from there,
>>> which is why the outcome Parth described still holds, just via the
>>> login-user fallback rather than the absence of a doAs. (Parth, please
>>> correct me if I'm misreading the code here.)
>>>
>>> IMO, HADOOP-19906 looks orthogonal to this SPIP rather than a
>>> requirement of it. It's the same pre-existing JDK 25 dependency that the
>>> current Kerberos and Kafka delegation-token paths already need. So I'd
>>> suggest we track it separately and not treat it as a blocker here.
>>>
>>> That leaves the main open question: the overlap with the OIDC Credential
>>> Propagation SPIP.
>>> Parth listed three cases that the OIDC approach can't cover and that fit
>>> naturally into the existing delegation-token framework:
>>> 1. Kafka delegation tokens over SCRAM — they target brokers (not URIs)
>>> and need no UserContext, so they can't be expressed as
>>> CredentialProvider.resolve(UserContext, URI).
>>> 2. The existing S3A/ABFS Hadoop delegation-token bindings — these
>>> already work under Kerberos and just need the activation gates removed; the
>>> OIDC manager doesn't run them.
>>> 3. Proprietary, non-JWT IdP tokens — the OIDC path requires an OIDC JWT.
>>>
>>> Cheng Pan (and anyone else who has the redundancy concern), does this
>>> resolve it for you? My read is that the two are complementary rather than
>>> redundant:
>>> - this SPIP unlocks the existing, provider-agnostic DT mechanism for any
>>> non-Kerberos provider;
>>> - while the OIDC SPIP adds per-user/session identity propagation for
>>> OIDC.
>>>
>>> I'd like to make sure we agree on that framing, and that you're
>>> comfortable with the direction of extending the existing DT management,
>>> before we go further and discuss the implementation options that Steve
>>> mentioned earlier.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 29, 2026 at 11:58 PM Parth Chandra <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Cheng Pan
>>>>
>>>> >> then we decided to keep them independent
>>>>
>>>> > I see that, but if we decide to accept and implement both SPIPs, then
>>>> we are going to provide two approaches for users that enable cloud
>>>> credentials refresh, this is functionality redundant, and as you know, this
>>>> part usually involve private data and 3rd party services dependencies, when
>>>> user report issues, they are likely limited to share the related part of
>>>> logs and environment information to provide a minimal reproducible cases,
>>>> this makes diagnosis extremely difficult. Offering two distinct cloud
>>>> credential refresh mechanisms undoubtedly increases system complexity.
>>>> > I would lean towards to the OIDC Credential Propagation approach
>>>> unless it does not cover the functionality (user perspective) provided by
>>>> this SPIP.
>>>>
>>>> There are a few cases  covered by this not covered by the OIDC
>>>> credential propagation approach. For instance, -
>>>> 1. Kafka delegation tokens over SCRAM — the existing
>>>> KafkaDelegationTokenProvider is currently blocked by the Kerberos gates. It
>>>> targets brokers, not URIs, and doesn't need a UserContext. However, the
>>>> OIDC approach depends on a UserContext (an OIDC JWT with
>>>> principal/issuer/rawToken). It cannot be reimplemented as a
>>>> CredentialProvider.resolve(UserContext, URI).
>>>> 2. Existing S3A/ABFS delegation token bindings (Steve's point in this
>>>> thread) — these are already implemented as HadoopDelegationTokenProvider
>>>> and work today in Kerberos environments. They just need the activation
>>>> gates removed to work without Kerberos. The OIDC SPIP's parallel manager
>>>> does not unblock  them.
>>>> 3. There can also be proprietary IdP systems which have non JWT tokens
>>>> (which is what prompted this SPIP in the first place)
>>>>
>>>> >> The DirectProviderPath proposed in this SPIP does not go
>>>> through Subject.doAs() or UserGroupInformation.doAs() and will be
>>>> unaffected. The existing Kerberos path will have to be updated.
>>>> > Sorry, I overlook this reply. I think this is also affected. The JDK
>>>> change breaks the Subject propagation between threads, that means you can
>>>> not get the same Subject (UGI) instance from the task thread as
>>>> the updateTokensTask thread, so you can not access any kind of the
>>>> credential you offered from the task thread.
>>>>
>>>> On executor task threads, there is no active doAs()/callAs() scope.
>>>> getCurrentUser() sees null from Subject.current() (or Subject.getSubject()
>>>> on older JDKs) and falls back to getLoginUser() — which is a static field
>>>> and is not based on Subject propagation. The credentials added via
>>>> addCredentials() on the RPC handler thread are added to this same static
>>>> login user instance so task threads reading from getLoginUser() should see
>>>> them
>>>> However, broadly speaking, we do need HADOOP-19906
>>>>
>>>> I've updated the SPIP document to include these points
>>>>
>>>> Parth
>>>>
>>>
>>

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