I buy into what Ted said on legality/reality. The reality is that if anyone -1's anything then they have to justify why, whether they're a PMC member or not - if someone puts forward good reasons for a -1 then they're not going to be ignored. On the other side of the coin the more people that +1 a release (or decision) the better, whether they're PMC,committer, contributor or user. I belive its going to be a rare occasion when when the PMC ploughs ahead with somthing when people ae -1'ing.
Niall ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eddie Bush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Struts Developers List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 7:06 PM Subject: Re: What binds us (Re: [VOTE] Struts 1.2.6 Quality) > Good stuff :-) Thanks Ted and Niall for the clarification. My apologies, > again, if I came off as being obtuse. I just wasn't seeing it. Niall's > message helped, and I really apprecite your note fleshing things out, Ted. > > Eddie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ted Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Struts Developers List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 12:08 PM > Subject: What binds us (Re: [VOTE] Struts 1.2.6 Quality) > > > As always, everyone is invited to vote on everything. :) > > The website is still a little out of synch with what has been decided on the > dev list. Right now, the best reference for the release process is the > Release Checklist. > > * http://struts.apache.org/release-checklist.html > > This document obsoletes the link to Jakarta Tomcat's guidelines, which cover > more than the release process. We just have gotten around to removing the > link yet. > > The Struts resolution includes an instruction to draft a set of bylaws, > which we have done here: > > * http://struts.apache.org/bylaws.html > > As to who has binding votes and why: > > The copyright to Struts codebase is owned by the Apache Software Foundation > and distributed under the Apache license. But, if the foundation's eyes, > Struts "belongs" to the community. Through a corporate resolution, > > *http://www.apache.org/foundation/records/minutes/2004/board_minutes_2004_03 _17.txt > > the foundation has delegated the task of creating and maintaining Struts to > the Struts PMC. The PMC makes the day-to-day decisions, which includes > determining whether a distribution is "ready for primetime" or not. > > Because the PMC is the body created by ASF corporate resolution, only the > votes of the PMC members are "binding", in a technical, legal sense. But, if > we have three PMC members voting "yes" and a dozen other people voting "no", > I'm sure the PMC would reconsider. The foundation's goal is to create > codebases that survive its creators and any given set of maintainers. The > health of the community always comes first. > > The important thing to remember is that the Struts PMC is not a government, > it's a team. Like most teams, we set up procedures so that we don't have to > reinvent the wheel over and over again. But we do not serve the procedures, > the procedures serve us. There are legal reasons why the PMC has to > authorize a release on behalf of the foundation, but I believe most of us > would give as much weight to votes of Committers, and Developers, and Users, > as we do PMC members. > > For a while at Jakarta, the Committer's votes were considered "binding" too. > But, from the ASF board's perspective, they were never binding in a > technical, legal sense. I've strongly suggested that the Jakarta > documentation be updated, but others felt it better to leave it alone. > However, there is a now policy at Jakarta to make all the committers PMC > members as soon as possible, to cure any procedural issues. > > Some of our procedures do have to be legally binding to ensure that there is > no question of owns the Struts codebase and where it came from. All the ASF > committers have agreements on file that assign the rights to our commits to > the Foundation, there is a resolution by the Foundation that created Struts, > there are regular PMC reports to the board about the status of Struts, and > the PMC is responsible for vetting each and every change we make to Struts, > either ourselves or through a committer. > > Legally, the Struts PMC that makes all the decisions on behalf of the > Foundation, because the PMC is the legal body that the Foundation created. > We make those decisions based on feedback from everyone in the community > (including our own experiences, since we are also members of the community > we serve). Inviting everyone to vote is one way that we collect feedback. > > -Ted. > > On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:57:02 -0600, Eddie Bush wrote: > > I don't see a difference, Martin. > > > > It's moot to me. I haven't had time to test it, so I hadn't > > intended to voice any input. I don't see what you're quoting to > > say that only PMC members have voting rights on the quality of a > > release though. In fact, I still feel my original view is valid: > > PMC members are there to authorize the release, once committers > > determine it's quality by a vote. > > > > I'm not trying to be thick :-) I just don't see what you're > > "pointing" to as an authority on the matter. It's more for the > > sake of my understanding, I suppose. I might care in the future ;-) > > > > Y'all have fun. I've got to make a road trip this weekend :-( No > > rest for the wicked! > > > > Night, > > > > Eddie > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Martin Cooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Eddie Bush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: "Struts Developers List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 9:31 PM > > Subject: Re: [VOTE] Struts 1.2.6 Quality > > > > > >> You're quoting from the Jakarta decision making page. We're not > >> at Jakarta any more, and have our own process now. You have some > >> catching up to do, Eddie. ;-) > >> > >> Here's what we're doing these days: > >> > >> http://struts.apache.org/releases.html > >> > >> -- > >> Martin Cooper > >> > >> > >> On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 20:55:47 -0600, Eddie Bush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> I was of the impression that committers and up judged quality > >>> and PMC members were in charge of deciding whether distribution > >>> would happen or not. > >>> > >>> <quot> > >>> After a new release is built, it must be tested before being > >>> released to the > >>> public. Majority approval is required before the release can be > >>> made. Once a > >>> release is approved by the Committers, the Project Management > >>> Committee can > >>> authorize its distribution on behalf of the Foundation. </quot> > >>> > >>> Am I misinterpreting that? > >>> > >>> Eddie > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Martin Cooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> To: "Struts Developers List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 12:49 AM > >>> Subject: [VOTE] Struts 1.2.6 Quality > >>> > >>>> The Struts 1.2.6 test build has been available for about two > >>>> weeks now. Once you have had a chance to form an opinion on > >>>> the quality of this build, please respond to the following > >>>> vote. > >>>> > >>>> ----- > >>>> Based on its quality, the Struts 1.2.6 build should be > >>>> classified as: > >>>> > >>>> [ ] Alpha > >>>> [ ] Beta > >>>> [ ] General Availability (GA) > >>>> ----- > >>>> > >>>> If you are voting for Alpha or Beta, please state your > >>>> concerns with the build as it is today. > >>>> > >>>> Only the votes of Struts PMC members are binding. However, > >>>> all opinions and feedback are welcome. > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Martin Cooper > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> ------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev- > >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e- > >>>> mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>> > >>>> > >>> --- > >>> avast! 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