Well, you aren't doing a great job, David, because what you have never noticed happened again this last week. Why don't you try doing a search for SHALE and JSF for the last week? I really don't think this is a big deal, but wonder why someone would bother saying what was going on here without making at least a cursory check. Anyway, your suggestion is clearly mistaken.
On 8/25/05, David Durham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dakota Jack wrote: > > First, comparing Struts and JSF is like comparing C++ and Visual > > Basic. Struts is REQUEST-DRIVEN MVC and JSF (Shale) is PAGE CENTRIC > > RAD (rapid development with tools as in VB). Anyone that cannot see > > they don't go together, frankly, is not that insightful, in my > > opinion. The present idea that they go together is one of the more > > interesting marketing ploys in my recent experience. I have to admit > > that Craig is not only a superb coder but also a clever politician. I > > would have bet big money that no one could convince the Struts > > community to share a bedroom with JSF. I would have lost. I still am > > amazed. > > > > Second, Rod Johnson only has three books out that I know of. There is > > a whole section on web frameworks in Ch. 13 of Expert One-on-One J2EE > > Development without EJB. That is where I "read it". You can read the > > same thing from numerous other folks in the Struts lists as well. Of > > course, if you don't want to see it, you won't. > > > > Third, I am amazed that people who consider themselves to be expert in > > this area, and who should be expert in this area given their status, > > people such as yourself, Matthias, even argue this point. A modicum > > of understanding of the two frameworks shows that they are like night > > and day. Indeed, Craig is constantly trumpeting that JSF is a "new > > deal" which should tell you that it is not what he now decries as the > > "old deal", Struts. He says it is a huge architectural shift. He is > > right. You CANNOT combine the two. You CAN mix them into what is > > essentially a mush, a hodge-podge. But, you cannot combine them. You > > have to have a switch that chooses one over the other in the mix. > > That is what Rod Johnson says and that is what I agree with. > > > > Fourth, I am about to leave the debate arena on this one, however. > > This is all too nutty for me to stick with any longer. I don't mind a > > good spirited debate on architecture, but I am not intersted in a > > political community with its head in the sand. When a VB expert is > > voted into the C++ expert community, that is enough for me. And, when > > a JSF expert is voted into the Struts community, that is enough for > > me. I have to admit that I am completely enamored anyway with the > > Spring IoC and AOP approach and believe that a one can build something > > akin to the Struts package there. I will, of course, remain > > interested in Struts even though the interest will be more one of > > morbid fascination with the process that is happening here. > > > > Cheers! > > Thanks, I'm following this list off and on, but fairly regularly, I > don't recall anyone else saying "hey, this shouldn't be in struts". I > have no doubt that others feel the way you do, just interested in some > names that's all. I don't think this is a decision that's made based on > technical merits as you suggest it should. From what I can tell, this > is a community effort as much as it is a technical effort. > > > - Dave > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- "You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back." ~Dakota Jack~ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
