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My opinions inline:
Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> Hmmm...Those are valid points. I might be ok with changing my vote to a -0
> if the following questions can be answered:
>
> -) What will the length of time be for the contest ?
To be determined by the PMC. I would suspect a month would be a valid
timetable for entries to be submitted. I'd prefer shorter, then have
voting wrap up in a month's time, but that's only my preference - not
what I've seen done before. [Could, in theory, do a couple week "get 'em
in", then a 72 hr [VOTE] timetable... but that might be pushing it] The
longer you give, the more time you'll need. The less you give, the more
you'll need. Gotta balance that one. People usually start voting when
entries start arriving. ("I posted this, so I vote for it" syndrome)
> -) Who will be managing the contest ?
The PMC. They are the "ruling body" and responsible for setting out
guidelines for the contest, disqualifying submissions that violate the
guidelines and final tally of votes. (Not much more managing that I see
required on that front) If this is a decided course of action (despite
not being sure of my current status in that regard), I would have no
problem overseeing it as a liaison for the PMC.
> -) What constitutes a vote ? Ie "who" is allowed to vote(and how do you
> verify who who is?), how will they vote, and does the PMC have the final
> vote or is it firmly the most votes from "anyone" in general that wins?
Ah - tricky. Multiple questions in one "-)" :-D
A 'vote' is from anyone with a Wiki account presumably. If they care
enough to pay attention, they should have a say. (I personally would put
more stock in people I've seen on the lists, but that's just me)
For "How will they vote?", see
http://wiki.apache.org/geronimo/LogoContest - the bottom. One user, one
line for voting. (This I believe requires paying attention that user A
didn't delete user B's vote, but I don't believe this to be a real issue
- - naive?) I could also (if the whole "I can oversee it" thing went) take
votes via e-mail and post them myself to the wiki. Then people would
just have to verify that I properly recorded their vote.
The PMC has the final vote - however: it is firmly the most votes from
"anyone" in general that wins. If there is a problem with an entry, it
should be addressed on the list or to the entity that submitted the
entry - as well as noted on the wiki page. If there is a requirement for
the logo, the PMC should state the requirement as part of submitting a
valid entry - in this way the PMC is the final vote. Past that, the PMC
should simply take the logo that conforms to their requirements that has
received the most votes by users. There is a tendency to use native
american references in Apache projects which is somewhat frowned upon.
This should be stated and entries that violate this, while acknowledged,
should be separated so it can get "the most votes" but still have the
PMC say "this one was chosen, but can we get you (the submitter) to do
one without this piece as it isn't in keeping with the project's goals?"
These are a) my views and b) how I've seen it handled before.
Ultimately, the PMC is in charge. If the PMC doesn't want to do a logo
contest, that's the decision that sticks. If 100 people choose logo X,
and the PMC likes logo Y they can go with logo Y. It is, however, best
to state requirements up front so there are no surprises at the end -
then let the community run with it. There will be some duds. Always are.
(people like me who haven't come to the realization that they aren't
artists) And there will be some good ones. As long as they adhere to the
requirements (notably "need these formats, in these sizes, with this -
and without that"), you're bound to end up with something everyone will
be agreeable to.
I don't want to seem like I'm taking this and running away with it. If I
can help in any way I'm all for it. If it's decided at the PMC level
that "we have a logo and we're sticking with it. period.", I won't be
enthusiastic about no community involvement, but I'll be supportive of
the PMC's decision.
>
> On 5/17/06, Brian K. Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
> Despite how the following may read initially, I ask you to get to the
> end before putting me on your "hate mail" list. :-)
>
> - From earlier conversations I was afraid this would be part of it.
>
> On the short side:
> No. It doesn't matter to me at all. I view Tapestry as an Apache
> project that revolves around the community. I do not view it as Howard
> Tapestry, Jesse Tapestry, or Brian Tapestry - it's Apache Tapestry.
> Apache, in and of itself, involves community without which it truly
> would be just Tapestry.
>
> On the long side:
> I am very interested in a new logo, and very (read both uses of the
> word 'very' as _VERY_) interested in a new site design. But not at the
> cost of a) money or b) no/minimal community involvement (and with b you
> get no a - there are plenty of people passionate about Tapestry to
> devote their free time)
> I believe investing money "for the common good" without "common
> consent" was a bad idea. I know there are those who make a living off of
> Tapestry work alone and I applaud that. I do not want to see the
> framework itself tied to that. I never saw a number float around as to
> cost, but I am willing to aid in minimizing that for what I consider
> "common good". I am but one, but that is my opinion on that matter.
>
> Still more of the long side:
> I'm not only for a "logo contest", but also a "site design" contest.
> (I just love contests - even though I never win) It's all about bringing
> those passionate users out there with skills to bear on the task at
> hand. Don't think for a second that you don't have professionals working
> with the framework. I've seen them. Will the end result be what you
> want? Maybe. Maybe not. But if it's voted upon (and not a +1/-1, but "8
> people like #2, and every other entry got 1 vote, so #2 it is") then it
> will be the consensus of the community as to what it will look like. Let
> "them" (some unnamed user out there - or you if you submit an entry)
> design it - we build it (aka: incorporate it into the build). If it
> can't be done - take it back to the users.
>
> These are my opinions alone, but I believe they are in line with the
> "Apache way". I do not discount your bias entirely, I simply hope to
> bridge a gap I see forming between vested interest and community
> interest.
>
> With warmest regards,
> The hated mail sender *hoping that's still considered humorous*
>
> Brian
>
> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
>> Does it help if I mention that I'm partially financially invested in
> the
>> current new logo? And that the logo is just one small part of an
> overall
>> new
>> site design /etc ?
>
>> I've got a feeling the logo contest will happen anyways, but I'm
> kind of
>> biased...
>
>> On 5/17/06, Brian K. Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I intentionally did not start a [VOTE] thread, I was merely wanting to
>> know if there was significant opposition to starting up a 'logo
> contest'
>> page so anyone and everyone (both qualified and
>> myself^H^H^H^H^H^Hunqualified alike if they choose) could post
>> image/logo proposals instead of inundating the user list with links.
>> That would allow us to specify what it cannot (per ASF guidelines) have
>> as well as what we'd like it to have (albeit not required) as well as
>> sizes required (wouldn't it be nice to have a banner, powered by, and
>> icon that all matched?). This would allow users to spend their time
>> coming up with things we could only dream of without the need for a
>> [VOTE]. I, for one, would put any logo we already have up there, too.
>> I'm not opposed to anything, really, as long as it's aids in promotion
>> of Tapestry as a top-tier framework (something I don't believe the
>> current T does anymore).
>
>> That said, I would view it as a "contest" - load up the page with logos
>> and may the best - or, since that's very subjective - the one with the
>> most votes win.
>
>> That's my reasoning. [and no, I assure you you wouldn't see one up
> there
>> from me. As much as I dis the current T as a future logo, I'd be doing
>> good to come up with one that was any better - probably much worse]
>
>
>> Andreas Andreou wrote:
>>> What is this vote for?
>>> 'Cause if it is for an official Tapestry Logo Contest, i'm -0 at the
>>> moment,
>>> meaning that i don't think we should rush to something official but
>> also
>>> that i wouldn't mind looking at user's creations + ideas.
>
>
>>> Brian K. Wallace wrote:
>>> It appears as though the user community is voicing its opinion that a
>>> logo contest is the thing to do for Tapestry. I know this has been
>>> suggested but received a less than enthusiastic response, so before
>>> setting up a Wiki page to solicit suggestions (in the form of actual
>>> image posts + voting) I wanted to again run it by everyone else
> looking
>>> for a -1 to stop it.
>
>>> Brian
>
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