Hi Cole.
Done https://github.com/apache/tinkerpop/pull/3232

I'm sorry, but implementing schema changes over the manipulation by
vertices consumed me a bit.

On Tue, Sep 23, 2025 at 8:31 AM Andrii Lomakin
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi Cole, sure.
>
> Let me wait for the results of additional discussion in Discord, and then I
> will summarize everything as a PR.
>
> On Mon, Sep 22, 2025 at 9:13 PM Cole Greer <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks Andrii,
> >
> > That proposal looks good to me. I’d like to retain that same our records
> > as well, would you mind
> > opening a PR to the 3.8-dev branch which adds that as a proposal to our
> > future docs:
> > https://github.com/apache/tinkerpop/tree/3.8-dev/docs/src/dev/future
> >
> > Regards,
> > Cole
> >
> > From: Andrii Lomakin <[email protected]>
> > Date: Monday, September 22, 2025 at 12:04 AM
> > To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
> > Subject: Re: Proposal of the new declarative semantics of the match step
> > Good day.
> > As this thread has been dormant for two weeks already, I have summarized
> > our discussion and created a spec proposal.
> > Please skip the part related to GQL DSL that is our specifics ->
> >
> > https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/articles/YTDB-A-32/Specification-for-the-declarative-match-step
> >
> > Looking forward to any constructive feedback.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 7, 2025 at 4:40 PM Andrii Lomakin <
> > [email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Good day, Cole.
> > > Thank you for your feedback.
> > >
> > > As for your concerns about supporting other pattern-matching languages,
> > it
> > > is unlikely that a pattern-matching language can be implemented without
> > the
> > > concept of a variable.
> > >
> > > I will wait two weeks for feedback from other participants, and then, if
> > > there is no activity, I will summarize our discussion.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2025 at 2:02 AM Cole Greer <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi Andrii and Lev,
> > >>
> > >> I really like that idea. It's clean, simple, and concise. I suppose one
> > >> downside of
> > >> dropping the RETURN is that you can no longer use aggregator functions
> > as
> > >> in
> > >> RETURN count(n), however those capabilities already exist in gremlin so
> > >> there
> > >> really isn't much of an impact here.
> > >>
> > >> I am concerned that no returns/always returning Optional.EMPTY may place
> > >> undesired restrictions on providers who are using different declarative
> > >> languages
> > >> via with("language", "GSQL"). If we want to give providers full
> > >> flexibility here, they
> > >> may want the ability to directly return data.
> > >>
> > >> For my purposes, I definitely want the default/reference GQL-based match
> > >> language
> > >> to work like your example:
> > >>
> > >> g.V(1).property('friendWeight', match("MATCH
> > >> (n{name:'Cole'})-[e:knows]->()").select("n").values("weight").sum()))
> > >>
> > >> I'm still not sure how much providers will choose to use their own
> > >> declarative
> > >> languages instead of using our default implementation, so this may not
> > be
> > >> much of a
> > >> concern in practice. I would be happy to start with always returning
> > >> Optional.EMPTY,
> > >> and then we can consider giving providers some extensibility on returns
> > >> in the future if
> > >> there is demand.
> > >>
> > >> I'm fully onboard with this proposal. Thanks for all of the work that
> > has
> > >> gone into this.
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Cole
> > >>
> > >> On 2025/09/03 08:03:36 Andrii Lomakin wrote:
> > >> > Hi Cole.
> > >> > Thank you for sharing. We reached an agreement on all topics except
> > >> > the use of the RETURN statement.
> > >> >
> > >> > We brainstormed inside the team and came up with an interesting idea
> > >> > about handling the output from the match statement, thanks to Lev
> > >> > Sivashov, who provided it.
> > >> >
> > >> > This idea is combined with another of my proposals to treat
> > >> > Optional.EMPTY returned by Traverser is a jolt to the execution of the
> > >> > next step by Traversal, but it is treated as no value for the steps
> > >> > that do not process input values, such as addV().
> > >> > It will fix queries such as `g.addV(__.inject('x'))` and similar ones
> > >> > in Gremlin that accept Traversal and need a fake Traverser with a
> > >> > value to work as expected.
> > >> >
> > >> > So we propose not to support RETURN at all, as we already have a means
> > >> > to handle projections in Gremlin.
> > >> >
> > >> > Instead:
> > >> > 1. match() steps returns Optional.empty() as result.
> > >> > 2. We specify which MATCH variables we need to fetch using the
> > select()
> > >> step.
> > >> >
> > >> > So query
> > >> > g.V(1).property('friendWeight', match("MATCH
> > >> > (n{name:'Cole'})-[e:knows]->() RETURN sum(e.weight)"))
> > >> >
> > >> > will look like
> > >> > g.V(1).property('friendWeight', match("MATCH
> > >> > (n{name:'Cole'})-[e:knows]->()).select("n").values("weight").sum()))
> > >> >
> > >> > This approach is easily optimized for execution by analyzing the
> > >> > select steps and providing GQL executor names of variables that are
> > >> > really needed. It also looks elegant, prevents informational clutter,
> > >> > and offers minimal and efficient pattern-matching methods for Gremlin.
> > >> > WDYT?
> > >> >
> > >> > If you agree, I will wait a week to gather feedback from other
> > >> > participants. If no additions are provided, I will publish a summary
> > >> > here and link to our design document for general information, and I
> > >> > will start implementing it at our pace.
> > >> >
> > >> > On Wed, Sep 3, 2025 at 5:27 AM Cole Greer <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Hi Andrii,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I've taken more time to think through your proposal.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > I think we can transform the idea of introduction of new step, to
> > >> the idea of usage
> > >> > > > of `with` step and provide the following modulation rule for the
> > new
> > >> > > > `match` step: if name of the key in with step is passed in with
> > "$"
> > >> prefix,
> > >> > > > this prefix is removed an the rest of the key is used as query
> > >> parameter.
> > >> > > > It is quite a common way of naming the parameters.  As for binding
> > >> of
> > >> > > > parameters for server queries, if query parameters are not
> > provided
> > >> > > > explicitly, then we will perform an implicit lookup over the
> > >> bindings of
> > >> > > > those parameters.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I like this. It gives good flexibility for localized "match
> > >> parameters", while retaining some connection to the existing parameter
> > >> bindings in the server.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > There is a discrepancy between the naming of parameters between
> > GQL
> > >> and
> > >> > > > Gremlin, but that is, IMHO, acceptable.
> > >> > > > As one more alternative, probably even more appealing, we can wrap
> > >> > > > parameters in "{}", as Koltin does :-)
> > >> > > > That will resemble GQL style and will not create a visual mess.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > So it will look like:
> > >> > > > ` g.match("MATCH (src:Airport {code:srcCode}),  (dest:Airport
> > >> > > > {code:destCode}) RETURN src")
> > >> > > >     .addE("Route").to("dest")
> > >> > > >     .property(T.id,
> > >> > > >
> > >>
> > format("%{_}-%{_}").by(constant("{srcCode}")).by(constant("{destCode}")))`
> > >> > >
> > >> > > We don't currently support any parameter replacement within a string
> > >> literal, currently parameters can only be used to swap out the string
> > >> literal in its entirety. It may be complicated to implement as that
> > >> parameter resolution would need to be added to all steps which accept
> > >> string arguments. It may be best to spin this into it's own discussion
> > if
> > >> there is interest in pursuing this.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > > I still haven't quite aligned myself regarding single
> > non-element
> > >> > > > returns. I'll reply back on this topic soon.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > I'm curious to see what you think.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I've worked through some examples here and my preference is not to
> > >> wrap single returns in maps. I understand the desire to limit the
> > possible
> > >> return types from the match step to just Elements and Maps, but in my
> > >> opinion this is outweighed by the convenience of directly using the
> > >> results. For instance with map wrapping:
> > >> > > g.match("MATCH (n{name:'Cole'}) RETURN
> > >> n.birthday").select("n.birthday").dateDiff(datetime("2000-01-01"))
> > >> > > compared to without maps:
> > >> > > g.match("MATCH (n{name:'Cole'}) RETURN
> > >> n.birthday").dateDiff(datetime("2000-01-01"))
> > >> > >
> > >> > > The map wrapping and associated select feels unnecessary to me and
> > >> gets in the way. I feel similarly about the following examples:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > g.match("MATCH (n:person) RETURN
> > >> n.age").select("n.age").order().limit(5) vs.
> > >> > > g.match("MATCH (n:person) RETURN n.age").order().limit(5)
> > >> > >
> > >> > > g.V(1).property('friendWeight', match("MATCH
> > >> (n{name:'Cole'})-[e:knows]->() RETURN
> > >> sum(e.weight)").select("sum(e.weight)")) vs.
> > >> > > g.V(1).property('friendWeight', match("MATCH
> > >> (n{name:'Cole'})-[e:knows]->() RETURN sum(e.weight)"))
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I couldn't come up with examples where I wanted to retain the
> > results
> > >> in their maps so the select() always feels like an unnecessary chore to
> > me.
> > >> Without these maps, the possible return types of match() would grow to
> > >> include any property type supported by the graph, as well as the return
> > >> types of any functions included in the declarative language. This is
> > more
> > >> complex but not without precedent considering steps such as inject() and
> > >> constant().
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Of course for any match query which returns multiple results, a map
> > >> of all of them should be returned:
> > >> > > g.match("MATCH (p:person)-[e:created]->(s:software) RETURN *")
> > >> > > -> {"p": V[1], "e": E[9], "s": V[3]}
> > >> > >
> > >> > > In my mind this is mostly a matter of a small convenience. If you
> > >> feel strongly that wrapping any non-element results into maps is
> > >> preferable, I can accept that as well.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Thanks,
> > >> > > Cole
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On 2025/08/27 15:20:31 Andrii Lomakin wrote:
> > >> > > > Good day.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > >I suppose I'm approaching this one more from the perspective that
> > >> I don't
> > >> > > > see why these parameters need to be isolated to just the match
> > >> subquery.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Thank you, Cole, for your feedback.
> > >> > > > While you paused further analysis, I investigated code a bit, and
> > I
> > >> think
> > >> > > > we can transform the idea of introduction of new step, to the idea
> > >> of usage
> > >> > > > of `with` step and provide the following modulation rule for the
> > new
> > >> > > > `match` step: if name of the key in with step is passed in with
> > "$"
> > >> prefix,
> > >> > > > this prefix is removed an the rest of the key is used as query
> > >> parameter.
> > >> > > > It is quite a common way of naming the parameters.  As for binding
> > >> of
> > >> > > > parameters for server queries, if query parameters are not
> > provided
> > >> > > > explicitly, then we will perform an implicit lookup over the
> > >> bindings of
> > >> > > > those parameters.
> > >> > > > "Global" parameters can be applied in `with` Step in
> > >> GraphTraversalSource
> > >> > > > using the same approach.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > In such case, your query example would look like:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > ` g.match("MATCH (src:Airport {code:srcCode}),  (dest:Airport
> > >> > > > {code:destCode}) RETURN src")
> > >> > > >     .addE("Route").to("dest")
> > >> > > >     .property(T.id,
> > >> > > >
> > >> format("%{_}-%{_}").by(constant("$srcCode")).by(constant("$destCode")))`
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > There is a discrepancy between the naming of parameters between
> > GQL
> > >> and
> > >> > > > Gremlin, but that is, IMHO, acceptable.
> > >> > > > As one more alternative, probably even more appealing, we can wrap
> > >> > > > parameters in "{}", as Koltin does :-)
> > >> > > > That will resemble GQL style and will not create a visual mess.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > So it will look like:
> > >> > > > ` g.match("MATCH (src:Airport {code:srcCode}),  (dest:Airport
> > >> > > > {code:destCode}) RETURN src")
> > >> > > >     .addE("Route").to("dest")
> > >> > > >     .property(T.id,
> > >> > > >
> > >>
> > format("%{_}-%{_}").by(constant("{srcCode}")).by(constant("{destCode}")))`
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Also, nobody prohibits keeping the policy of resolving parameter
> > >> binding as
> > >> > > > it is right now for server queries, with the recommended way to
> > use
> > >> the new
> > >> > > > approach, so it will not be a breaking change and I doubt that
> > many
> > >> users
> > >> > > > use string literals wrapped {} as values.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > > I still haven't quite aligned myself regarding single
> > non-element
> > >> > > > returns. I'll reply back on this topic soon.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > I'm curious to see what you think.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > > Thanks again for driving these discussions. In my opinion this
> > >> will be
> > >> > > > one of the most exciting additions to gremlin in quite some time.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Thank you, I am totally flattered :-)
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > On Tue, Aug 26, 2025 at 12:13 AM Cole Greer <[email protected]
> > >
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > > Hi Andrii,
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > It was great to see your response. I think we are mostly in
> > >> agreement here.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > > It would be even better, IMHO, if the TP project added an
> > >> ANTLR4 parser
> > >> > > > > for GQL match statements
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Agreed, I've been loosely following LDBC's Open GQL project
> > which
> > >> has
> > >> > > > > produced an Apache 2 licensed GQL Antlr grammar which likely
> > >> offers a good
> > >> > > > > starting point.
> > >> > > > > https://github.com/opengql/grammar
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Except for obvious query injection cases, which, in the
> > absence
> > >> of query
> > >> > > > > parameters, should be handled by users themselves
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > I mostly considered this in the remote context, in which
> > reliance
> > >> on
> > >> > > > > gremlin-server for parameters is not an issue. I suppose there
> > >> may be
> > >> > > > > embedded use cases in which query injection is a concern,
> > however
> > >> this
> > >> > > > > seems much rarer than the remote case.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > > another important argument for the presence of query
> > parameters
> > >> is that
> > >> > > > > query parsing is quite a heavy process
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > I definitely agree on this front.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >I would prefer to solve that problem at the broader gremlin
> > >> level,
> > >> > > > > instead of isolating it to the match step.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Would you happen to have any other applications in mind?
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > I suppose I'm approaching this one more from the perspective
> > that
> > >> I don't
> > >> > > > > see why these parameters need to be isolated to just the match
> > >> subquery.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Parameters is already a bit overloaded and messy in TinkerPop
> > and
> > >> I hope
> > >> > > > > to reduce that complexity overtime. As already noted, remote
> > >> gremlin
> > >> > > > > scripts already have the ability to use parameters via
> > >> gremlin-server.
> > >> > > > > Bytecode requests currently have bindings which serve a similar
> > >> purpose.
> > >> > > > > Internally we also have the Parameterizing interface which is
> > >> more about
> > >> > > > > steps supporting things like `with()` modulation, and not
> > related
> > >> to query
> > >> > > > > parameters.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > I think it's easier for users if we simply have one set of query
> > >> > > > > parameters instead of fractured gremlin parameters and match
> > >> parameters. I
> > >> > > > > expect there are some cases where it is useful to reference the
> > >> same
> > >> > > > > parameter in both the gremlin and GQL portions of a query,
> > >> although it is
> > >> > > > > admittedly not a common use case. The following query is a
> > >> somewhat
> > >> > > > > contrived example where the same parameters are used to match 2
> > >> nodes, and
> > >> > > > > then the same parameters are concatenated together to form an id
> > >> for a new
> > >> > > > > edge which is added between the nodes:
> > >> > > > > g.match("MATCH (src:Airport {code:srcCode}),  (dest:Airport
> > >> > > > > {code:destCode}) RETURN src")
> > >> > > > >     .addE("Route").to("dest")
> > >> > > > >     .property(T.id,
> > >> > > > >
> > format("%{_}-%{_}").by(constant(srcCode)).by(constant(destCode)))
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > There may also be cases where it is useful to have multiple
> > match
> > >> steps in
> > >> > > > > a single traversal which reuse the same parameters.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Taking the existing remote query parameters, reworking them to
> > >> support the
> > >> > > > > embedded case as well, then making those parameters available to
> > >> the new
> > >> > > > > match step would solve the query injection and parse cache
> > >> problems without
> > >> > > > > introducing an additional form of parameters for users to
> > handle.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > I will take some time next week to work through some example
> > >> queries
> > >> > > > > and get a better sense of how I feel on each option here.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Looking forward to reading your conclusions.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > I still haven't quite aligned myself regarding single
> > non-element
> > >> returns.
> > >> > > > > I'll reply back on this topic soon.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Thanks again for driving these discussions. In my opinion this
> > >> will be one
> > >> > > > > of the most exciting additions to gremlin in quite some time.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Regards,
> > >> > > > > Cole
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > On 2025/08/23 14:00:51 Andrii Lomakin wrote:
> > >> > > > > > Good day, Cole.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Glad to exchange more ideas with you in this thread.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >I think it would make sense for TinkerPop to adopt a default
> > >> language
> > >> > > > > for the new match step, which is some heavily restricted form of
> > >> GQL
> > >> > > > > (read-only, limited to basic MATCH, WHERE, and RETURN
> > >> statements). This
> > >> > > > > "standard" language could then be used in the new match step
> > >> without a
> > >> > > > > language with-modulator. Providers would still be free to
> > support
> > >> their own
> > >> > > > > languages via that modulator if they choose.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > That makes sense, I agree with you.
> > >> > > > > > It would be even better, IMHO, if the TP project added an
> > ANTLR4
> > >> > > > > > parser for GQL match statements (there is already at least one
> > >> ANTLR
> > >> > > > > > spec in the public domain) that vendors can use to work on the
> > >> AST
> > >> > > > > > level. We can talk about possible collaboration on this task.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > I'd be interested if you have any examples where embedded
> > >> parameters
> > >> > > > > present a clear advantage.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > I expected that this question would be raised :-)
> > >> > > > > > But decided to move the discussion to a follow-up thread to
> > >> avoid
> > >> > > > > > polluting the main proposal.
> > >> > > > > > Except for obvious query injection cases, which, in the
> > absence
> > >> of
> > >> > > > > > query parameters, should be handled by users themselves,
> > another
> > >> > > > > > important argument for the presence of query parameters is
> > that
> > >> query
> > >> > > > > > parsing is quite a heavy process, and the consumption of 20%
> > of
> > >> CPU
> > >> > > > > > resources on query parsing is not a rare exception.
> > >> > > > > > To avoid this overhead, query parsing results (likely ASTs)
> > are
> > >> cached
> > >> > > > > > by a simple string hash code (likely the only way, as they are
> > >> not
> > >> > > > > > parsed in this phase). Of course, the absence of query
> > >> parameters very
> > >> > > > > > often increases the variability of queries by several orders
> > of
> > >> > > > > > magnitude and voids caching efforts.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >I would prefer to solve that problem at the broader gremlin
> > >> level,
> > >> > > > > instead of isolating it to the match step.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Would you happen to have any other applications in mind?
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > I will take some time next week to work through some example
> > >> queries
> > >> > > > > and get a better sense of how I feel on each option here.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Looking forward to reading your conclusions.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >. I think that all "variables" bound in the match query
> > should
> > >> be
> > >> > > > > stored such that they are later selectable.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Yeah, cool idea!
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >Overall I think this would be a great change to gremlin. I
> > >> look forward
> > >> > > > > to keeping this discussion going and ultimately seeing the
> > >> changes land in
> > >> > > > > TinkerPop.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Thank you, Cole!
> > >> > > > > > Once the discussion comes to a natural conclusion, I will
> > >> summarize
> > >> > > > > > all the ideas again to ensure that we are all on the same
> > page.
> > >> Then,
> > >> > > > > > we will add it to our roadmap.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > On Sat, Aug 23, 2025 at 12:01 AM Cole Greer <
> > >> [email protected]>
> > >> > > > > wrote:
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > Hi Andrii,
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > Thanks for starting this discussion and putting together
> > this
> > >> > > > > proposal. I want to start by saying that overall, I'm massively
> > >> in favour
> > >> > > > > of the proposed overhaul of match(). This is a topic that has
> > >> come up many
> > >> > > > > times in the past, and taking advantage of an established
> > >> declarative
> > >> > > > > language like GQL always seems to be the preferred solution.
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > The idea of having the language configurable via something
> > >> like
> > >> > > > > `.with(“language”,
> > >> > > > > > > “GQL”)` is quite interesting, and something I haven't seen
> > in
> > >> previous
> > >> > > > > discussions. There is clear value in allowing providers to
> > >> support their
> > >> > > > > own preferred declarative languages here, but I also worry about
> > >> the loss
> > >> > > > > of query portability if TinkerPop is too hands off on the choice
> > >> of
> > >> > > > > declarative language. I believe the vast majority of usages here
> > >> will be
> > >> > > > > seeing a traversal with a simple GQL-like match pattern. I think
> > >> it would
> > >> > > > > make sense for TinkerPop to adopt a default language for the new
> > >> match
> > >> > > > > step, which is some heavily restricted form of GQL (read-only,
> > >> limited to
> > >> > > > > basic MATCH, WHERE, and RETURN statements). This "standard"
> > >> language could
> > >> > > > > then be used in the new match step without a language
> > >> with-modulator.
> > >> > > > > Providers would still be free to support their own languages via
> > >> that
> > >> > > > > modulator if they choose.
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > I will take a bit more time to consider the withParameter()
> > >> proposal.
> > >> > > > > My initial reaction is that I prefer to tie it into the existing
> > >> parameter
> > >> > > > > bindings included in remote requests to gremlin-server. I would
> > >> like query
> > >> > > > > parameters to function in a unified manner across the entire
> > >> traversal if
> > >> > > > > possible, instead of a separate detached system isolated to the
> > >> new match
> > >> > > > > step. I understand the current limitation of only supporting
> > >> parameters in
> > >> > > > > remote traversals. I'm not immediately seeing the need to
> > support
> > >> > > > > parameters for embedded traversals here, I'd be interested if
> > you
> > >> have any
> > >> > > > > examples where embedded parameters present a clear advantage. If
> > >> we do
> > >> > > > > decide there is a need for embedded parameters, I would prefer
> > to
> > >> solve
> > >> > > > > that problem at the broader gremlin level, instead of isolating
> > >> it to the
> > >> > > > > match step.
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > I totally agree that the start and mid-step behaviour of the
> > >> new match
> > >> > > > > step should be modeled after V() and E().
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > I think the trickiest part of getting this right is the
> > >> return types.
> > >> > > > > The most common use cases I expect is where the RETURN clause
> > >> only includes
> > >> > > > > a single node or edge. In this case I completely agree with
> > >> returning the
> > >> > > > > element itself. I definitely want to support usages such as
> > >> g.match("MATCH
> > >> > > > > (n{name:'Cole'}) RETURN n").out()... My main tenet here is that
> > >> results
> > >> > > > > should naturally flow from the declarative match into the
> > >> subsequent
> > >> > > > > gremlin and be easy to consume. If multiple objects are
> > returned,
> > >> I would
> > >> > > > > agree that it is necessary to return a Map<String, ?> as in
> > >> g.match("MATCH
> > >> > > > > (p:person)-[e:created]->(s:software) RETURN *") -> {"p": V[1],
> > >> "e": E[9],
> > >> > > > > "s": V[3]} ...
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > I'm still on the fence for how to handle single returns of
> > >> > > > > non-elements. I see the value in your recommendation to return a
> > >> map of
> > >> > > > > size 1, but I also see some convenience to directly returning
> > the
> > >> value
> > >> > > > > (usually a single property). I will take some time next week to
> > >> work
> > >> > > > > through some example queries and get a better sense of how I
> > feel
> > >> on each
> > >> > > > > option here.
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > There is one final item which I would like to see added to
> > the
> > >> > > > > proposal. I think that all "variables" bound in the match query
> > >> should be
> > >> > > > > stored such that they are later selectable. Essentially I think
> > >> it's
> > >> > > > > important to support something like this:
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > g.match("MATCH (n1{name:'Cole'})-[]->(n2) RETURN
> > >> > > > > n1").where(...)...select(n2).out()...
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > The ability to select other bound variables later in the
> > >> traversal
> > >> > > > > should greatly limit the number of times users are forced to
> > >> return
> > >> > > > > multiple items at once, which reduces the amount of use cases
> > >> where users
> > >> > > > > will be forced to break down maps in gremlin to complete their
> > >> query.
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > Overall I think this would be a great change to gremlin. I
> > >> look
> > >> > > > > forward to keeping this discussion going and ultimately seeing
> > >> the changes
> > >> > > > > land in TinkerPop.
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > >> > > > > > > Cole
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > On 2025/08/22 15:46:10 Andrii Lomakin wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > Good day.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > I propose new semantics for the match step in Gremlin,
> > >> which we
> > >> > > > > discussed
> > >> > > > > > > > briefly in the Discord chat. The current ideas listed
> > >> partially
> > >> > > > > summarize
> > >> > > > > > > > ideas suggested by several discussion participants.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > The current semantics of the match step are complex to
> > >> optimize, so
> > >> > > > > users
> > >> > > > > > > > do not use this step in practice, and DB vendors do not
> > >> recommend
> > >> > > > > using
> > >> > > > > > > > match step in queries.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > Instead, what is proposed is to provide a new match step
> > >> based on
> > >> > > > > > > > declarative semantics.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > Signature of this step is quite simple: Travervsal<S, E>
> > >> match(String
> > >> > > > > > > > matchQuery).
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > Where matchQuery is a match statement written in
> > >> declarative query
> > >> > > > > language
> > >> > > > > > > > supported by the provider, I will use GQL as an example
> > >> below.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > This step will require the language as a configuration
> > >> parameter
> > >> > > > > provided
> > >> > > > > > > > using with the step.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > So the simplest query will look like:
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > g.match(“MATCH
> > >> > > > > (person:Person)-[:knows]->(friend:Person)”).with(“language”,
> > >> > > > > > > > “GQL”)
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > match step can accept query parameters, so if we provide a
> > >> query like
> > >> > > > > > > > g.match(“MATCH
> > >> > > > > > > > (p:Person WHERE p.name = $personName)RETURN
> > >> > > > > p.email”).with(“language”,
> > >> > > > > > > > “GQL”)
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > we may use parameter bindings, but it will work only for
> > >> interaction
> > >> > > > > with
> > >> > > > > > > > Gremlin Server, so instead, I propose an additional
> > >> modulator step:
> > >> > > > > > > > withParameter(String
> > >> > > > > > > > name, Object value)
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > In such case final version will look like: g.match(“MATCH
> > >> (p:Person
> > >> > > > > WHERE
> > >> > > > > > > > p.name = $personName) RETURN p.email”).with(“language”,
> > >> > > > > > > > “GQL”).withParameter(“personName”, “Stephen”)
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > Alongside the version of withParameter step that provides
> > >> the name
> > >> > > > > of the
> > >> > > > > > > > query parameter, a version with the following signature
> > >> should also
> > >> > > > > be
> > >> > > > > > > > provided: withParameter(int index, Object value) for query
> > >> languages
> > >> > > > > that
> > >> > > > > > > > support indexed parameters with/instead of named
> > parameters.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > Because we already introduced one modulator step, it is
> > >> reasonable to
> > >> > > > > > > > consider replacing it with step by more specific
> > >> withQueryLanguage()
> > >> > > > > > > > modulator step that will allow us to add more
> > >> expressiveness to the
> > >> > > > > > > > resulting queries.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > In such case final version will look like:  g.match(“MATCH
> > >> (p:Person
> > >> > > > > WHERE
> > >> > > > > > > > p.name = $personName) RETURN
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> p.email”).withQueryLanguage(“GQL”).withParameter(“personName”,
> > >> > > > > “Stephen”)
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > As for the scope of application of this step, I recommend
> > >> making it
> > >> > > > > behave
> > >> > > > > > > > exactly as it is implemented for the V() and E() steps. It
> > >> could be
> > >> > > > > added
> > >> > > > > > > > in the middle of GraphTraversal, but the execution result
> > >> will be
> > >> > > > > the same
> > >> > > > > > > > pattern matching execution applied to the whole graph
> > >> stored in the
> > >> > > > > > > > database (not to the item filtered/transformed by the
> > >> previous
> > >> > > > > steps).
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > It also means that match step will be added to the
> > >> > > > > GraphTraversalSource.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > As for the format of the output of the match step, I would
> > >> recommend
> > >> > > > > the
> > >> > > > > > > > following:
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > 1.  If the match statement returns an Element instance, it
> > >> is
> > >> > > > > returned as
> > >> > > > > > > > is.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > 2.  Otherwise, it should return any value that is allowed
> > >> to be a
> > >> > > > > property
> > >> > > > > > > > value in Element.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > 3. I would add an optional recommendation to return either
> > >> Element or
> > >> > > > > > > > Map<String,
> > >> > > > > > > > ?>  where the key of the map is the result a projection of
> > >> the query
> > >> > > > > result
> > >> > > > > > > > which in case of query  g.match(“MATCH (p:Person WHERE
> > >> p.name =
> > >> > > > > > > > $personName) RETURN
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> p.email”).withQueryLanguage(“GQL”).withParameter(“personName”,
> > >> > > > > “Stephen”)
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > will look like {“p.email”: “[email protected]”}. Following
> > this
> > >> optional
> > >> > > > > > > > recommendation will, IMHO, improve user experience.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > This step should be restricted to executing only
> > idempotent
> > >> queries.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > I would also recommend adding versions of withParameter()
> > >> that accept
> > >> > > > > > > > Traversal as a value of the parameters, namely:
> > >> > > > > > > > 1.  withParameter(String name, TraversalSource value)
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > 2.  withParameter(int index, TraversalSource value)
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > The current version of the match step should be deprecated
> > >> and then
> > >> > > > > removed.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > I want to thank Stephen Mallette, whose initial idea
> > >> closely aligned
> > >> > > > > with
> > >> > > > > > > > ours and who actively contributed to our discussions.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > I'm looking forward to your thoughts, observations, and
> > any
> > >> other
> > >> > > > > feedback
> > >> > > > > > > > you may have.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > Best Regards,
> > >> > > > > > > > YouTrackDB development lead
> > >> > > > > > > > Andrii Lomakin
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> >

Reply via email to