Done:
https://github.com/apache/tomee/commit/c63eacac4956c29454a0efc3e75e933dd4316b26

On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 9:46 PM Jonathan Gallimore <
jonathan.gallim...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks. That commit is incoming in about 1 minute.
>
> Jon
>
> On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 9:43 PM Jonathan S. Fisher <exabr...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> No problemo. I'll cancel, do the pr two step, and rebuild
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 3:39 PM Jonathan Gallimore
>> <jonathan.gallim...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I was about to ask the same. Happy to push the update to the branch
>> before
>> > a release is kicked off.
>> >
>> > Jon
>> >
>> > On Fri, 27 Oct 2023, 21:23 Alex The Rocker, <alex.m3...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi
>> > >
>> > > Before it's too late, can 8.0.16 release include (if not already done)
>> > > the dependency update to ActiveMQ version fixing CVE-2023-46604 (which
>> > > has High 8.8 score by
>> > > https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2022-46604), as it's enabling
>> > > remote code execution ?
>> > >
>> > > As a reminder, ActiveMQ is embedded in TomEE+.
>> > >
>> > > With TomEE+ 8.0.15, we have ActiveMQ artifacts at version 5.16.6, and
>> > > according to
>> > >
>> https://activemq.apache.org/security-advisories.data/CVE-2023-46604-announcement.txt
>> > > ,
>> > > we need at least 5.16.7
>> > >
>> > > I hope this dependency update can make it in 8.0.16 before it's
>> > > released (or maybe it's already in the about-to-be voted 8.0.16 ?)
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > > Alex
>> > >
>> > > Le ven. 27 oct. 2023 à 18:15, Jonathan S. Fisher <exabr...@gmail.com>
>> a
>> > > écrit :
>> > > >
>> > > > Alright, I have the build completed, signed, and uploaded the the
>> > > > Nexus staging repository: orgapachetomee-1221
>> > > >
>> > > > What's next? I'm a little apprehensive to close out the staging repo
>> > > > for fear of prematurely publishing a release...
>> > > >
>> > > > On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 9:42 AM Jonathan S. Fisher <
>> exabr...@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I got another good build locally and CI is happy too. I'm going to
>> > > > > stage the release!
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 9:27 AM Jonathan S. Fisher <
>> exabr...@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Yep! I just logged that one and pushed a PR. Waiting on CI
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 9:24 AM Jamie Johnson <
>> jej2...@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Should this be included?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > TOMEE-4263: Update Apache Santuario to 2.3.4 from 2.3.2
>> (xmlsec) to
>> > > > > > > mitigate CVE-2023-4448
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Not sure how to find the others without going through commit
>> > > history.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Jamie
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 8:19 AM Jonathan S. Fisher <
>> > > exabr...@gmail.com>
>> > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Richard, thank you sir; I assigned that ticket to myself. If
>> > > anyone
>> > > > > > > > else is aware of anything else I can upgrade before release,
>> > > please
>> > > > > > > > speak up :)
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Also good news: for whatever reason, I'm able to build
>> > > > > > > > tomee-release-tools now. The atlassian maven repository hit
>> me
>> > > with a
>> > > > > > > > rate limit briefly but it seems to have lifted.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > I have three questions at this point in time:
>> > > > > > > > 1. Is there a way to scan 8.0.16-SNAPHSOT before release for
>> > > CVE's?
>> > > > > > > > 2. Are there CVEs we ignore? (basically ones that are
>> present but
>> > > > > > > > don't apply to us)
>> > > > > > > > 3. I ran a build locally and got two test failures. Looks
>> like
>> > > CI did
>> > > > > > > > too:
>> > > > > > > >
>> > >
>> https://ci-builds.apache.org/job/Tomee/job/tomee-8.x-build-full-java8/lastCompletedBuild/
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > It doesn't look related to the EclipseLink change unless I
>> > > screwed the
>> > > > > > > > pooch on something. Are these known issues by chance?
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 1:03 AM Richard Zowalla <
>> > > rich...@zowalla.com>
>> > > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Might be relevant for your release preperations:
>> > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TOMEE-4263
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Am 26. Oktober 2023 00:11:14 MESZ schrieb "Jonathan S.
>> Fisher"
>> > > <
>> > > > > > > > exabr...@gmail.com>:
>> > > > > > > > > >Thank you, eclipselink has been updated and boms also
>> updated.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >Are the tomee release tools still needed?
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >[ERROR] Failed to execute goal on project release-tools:
>> > > Could not
>> > > > > > > > > >resolve dependencies for project
>> > > > > > > > > >org.apache.openejb.tools:release-tools:jar:1.0-SNAPSHOT:
>> > > Failed to
>> > > > > > > > > >collect dependencies at
>> > > org.tomitribe.jamira:jamira-core:jar:0.4 ->
>> > > > > > > > > >com.atlassian.jira:jira-rest-java-client-app:jar:5.2.2:
>> > > Failed to read
>> > > > > > > > > >artifact descriptor for
>> > > > > > > > > >com.atlassian.jira:jira-rest-java-client-app:jar:5.2.2:
>> The
>> > > following
>> > > > > > > > > >artifacts could not be resolved:
>> > > > > > > > > >com.atlassian.jira:jira-rest-java-client-app:pom:5.2.2
>> > > (absent): Could
>> > > > > > > > > >not transfer artifact
>> > > > > > > > > >com.atlassian.jira:jira-rest-java-client-app:pom:5.2.2
>> from/to
>> > > > > > > > > >atlassian (
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > https://maven.atlassian.com/content/repositories/atlassian-public/):
>> > > > > > > > > >status code: 429, reason phrase: Too Many Requests (429)
>> ->
>> > > [Help 1]
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >I can't seem to get the artifacts from their Maven
>> repository
>> > > due to
>> > > > > > > > > >rate limiting unfortunately.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 8:50 AM Richard Zowalla <
>> > > r...@apache.org>
>> > > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> Feel free to update 3rd party dependencies (make sure
>> to
>> > > create a
>> > > > > > > > Jira,
>> > > > > > > > > >> so it gets into the release notes). To update the BOMs
>> you
>> > > can either
>> > > > > > > > > >> rely on the related GitHub action (will do it
>> automatically
>> > > via a PR)
>> > > > > > > > > >> or just run a quick build.
>> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> Am Mittwoch, dem 25.10.2023 um 08:40 -0500 schrieb
>> Jonathan
>> > > S. Fisher:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > Richard: thank you sir, I see my key in there.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > Rod: Are the docker images part of the main build? I
>> > > don't use
>> > > > > > > > Docker
>> > > > > > > > > >> > professionally, so I'm not very familiar with the
>> whole
>> > > process.
>> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > I see Tomcat 9.0.82 in tomee-8.x. Yeehaw!
>> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > Does anyone have an issue with me updating to
>> eclipselink
>> > > 2.7.13?
>> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > https://github.com/eclipse-ee4j/eclipselink/releases/tag/2.7.13
>> > > > > > > > We've
>> > > > > > > > > >> > been running TomEE 8.0.15 with 2.7.13 in production
>> for a
>> > > few weeks
>> > > > > > > > > >> > and haven't seen any issues.
>> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 10:18 AM Rod Jenkins
>> > > > > > > > > >> > <r...@rodandmichelle.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > Is there anyway to test the keys before we
>> deploy?  We
>> > > have issues
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > in the past with new keys and verifying the
>> packages
>> > > when the
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > docker images are built.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > Thanks,
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > Rod.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > On Oct 24, 2023, at 9:06 AM, Richard Zowalla <
>> > > r...@apache.org>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > Added to
>> > > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/tomee/KEYS
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Am Dienstag, dem 24.10.2023 um 08:54 -0500
>> schrieb
>> > > Jonathan S.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Fisher:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > pasted here:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
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>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > =AdHB
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 11:35 PM Richard
>> Zowalla
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > <rich...@zowalla.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > The list doesn't allow attachments, so maybe
>> add
>> > > it as plain
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > text
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > (or put it into a gist)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Gruß
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Richard
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Am 22. Oktober 2023 21:48:22 MESZ schrieb
>> > > "Jonathan S.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Fisher"
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > <jfis...@apache.org>:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Attached! Thank you!
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 7:42 PM Richard
>> Zowalla
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > <rich...@zowalla.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Just send it in the required ascii
>> armored
>> > > format via
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > your
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > apache mail (or via die web ui on
>> > > lists.apache.org
>> > > > > > > > after
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > login.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I can take care of it.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Am 22. Oktober 2023 01:05:53 MESZ schrieb
>> > > "Jonathan S.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Fisher"
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > <exabr...@gmail.com>:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Richard thanks. Anyone on this thread
>> able
>> > > to add me
>> > > > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > KEYS file?
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I'd like to give this a roll :)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > cheers,
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 7:12 AM Jamie
>> > > Johnson
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > <jej2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Just checking in on this. Anything
>> the
>> > > community can
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > do to
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > facilitate the
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > release?
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 9:58 AM
>> Richard
>> > > Zowalla
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <rich...@zowalla.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Hi,
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > see
>> > > > > > > > https://tomee.apache.org/dev/release-tomee.html
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Might be beneficial to join the ASF
>> > > slack with
>> > > > > > > > your
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > apache.org mail.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Starting the VOTE, moving
>> artifacts to
>> > > release
>> > > > > > > > area
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > as
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > well as updating
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
>> https://downloads.apache.org/tomee/KEYS
>> > > needs to
>> > > > > > > > be
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > done
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > by a PMC member.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Gruß
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Richard
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Am 17. Oktober 2023 15:50:33 MESZ
>> > > schrieb
>> > > > > > > > "Jonathan
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > S.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Fisher" <
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > exabr...@gmail.com>:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED
>> MESSAGE-----
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Hash: SHA512
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ello other TomEE committers :)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > If I wanted to cut 8.0.16, how
>> do I
>> > > do that? My
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > personal GPG key is
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > 871638A21A7F2C38066471420306A354336B4F0D. I'll
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > sign
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > this text block to
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > prove I have control of my key.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you!
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > iLkEARMKAB0WIQSHFjiiGn8sOAZkcUIDBqNUM2tPDQUCZS6RI
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > AAKCRA
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > DBqNUM2tP
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > DYahAgkBNYn+LlIdFttvNW6KAJXHgNEQxmjJ6ALb7VaaEdqAX
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > jMNxwg
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > lLQQQVOVY
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > NtRxRj5nHDOXUVqwLjftisxyNnAkx50CCQHYbqySGYuWOxMdS
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > 8jsDGA
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > 2/UjTp0ib
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > RkLoChrMvppzIK5GOvd0UyBKmrvG3dkzJwQllPZ3EYvNZfLyl
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > +/K5oO
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > shg==
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > =d0gl
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 6:12 AM
>> Jamie
>> > > Johnson
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > <jej2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Looks like tomcat 9.0.82 was
>> > > released!
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 12:54
>> PM
>> > > Jamie Johnson
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > <jej2...@gmail.com>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looks right to me as well.
>> Thanks
>> > > Richard!
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at
>> 12:45 PM
>> > > Richard
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zowalla
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <rich...@zowalla.com
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we are running into
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > https://bz.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=67664
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This requires 9.0.82 to
>> become
>> > > available.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are already voting:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/qro48x3xnvhvvxxv3h
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wnqnnsrrry773j
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After 9.0.82 becomes
>> available,
>> > > we are
>> > > > > > > > most
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely in a good shape to
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > start a release
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gruß
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am 11. Oktober 2023
>> 18:14:09
>> > > MESZ schrieb
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zowalla <
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rich...@zowalla.com>:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems the Tomcat
>> upgrade
>> > > breaks some
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > connection pool related
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > tests.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess we need to check
>> our
>> > > integration
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > code
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to fix it:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > >
>> https://ci-builds.apache.org/job/Tomee/job/tomee-8.x-build-full-java8/lastCompletedBuild/testReport/
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So if anyone wants to
>> dig,
>> > > feel free.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am 11. Oktober 2023
>> 16:56:27
>> > > MESZ
>> > > > > > > > schrieb
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jamie
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Johnson <
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jej2...@gmail.com>:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are other
>> > > vulnerabilities
>> > > > > > > > (pulled
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://osv.dev/)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > that
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can be
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > addressed, but need to
>> be
>> > > reviewed.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > format below is
>> dependency
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > current_version
>> > > (fix_version).
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > org.apache.httpcomponents:httpclient
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4.2.2
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (>= 4.5.13)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-2x83-r56g-cv47
>> (4.2.3),
>> > > > > > > > GHSA-7r82-
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7xv7-
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xcpj
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (4.5.13),
>> > > GHSA-fmj5-wv96-r2ch (4.3.6),
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cfh5-3ghh-wfjx (4.3.5)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xalan:xalan 2.7.2
>> (2.7.3)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-9339-86wc-4qgf
>> (2.7.3)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > org.apache.commons:commons-compress
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.14
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (>=1.24.0)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-hrmr-f5m6-m9pq
>> (1.18),
>> > > GHSA-xqfj-
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vm6h-
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2x34 (1.22),
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-h436-432x-8fvx
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (1.16),
>> GHSA-crv7-7245-f45f
>> > > (1.21),
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mc84-pj99-q6hh
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (1.21),
>> GHSA-7hfm-57qf-j43q
>> > > (1.21),
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cgwf-w82q-5jrr (1.24.0)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > org.eclipse.jetty:jetty-server
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9.4.49.v20220914
>> > > (9.4.51.v20230217)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-qw69-rqj8-6qw8
>> > > > > > > > (9.4.51.v20230217),
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > p26g-97m4-6q7c
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (9.4.51.v20230217)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> org.eclipse.jetty:jetty-http
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9.4.49.v20220914
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (>=9.4.53)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-hmr7-m48g-48f6
>> > > (9.4.52), GHSA-
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wgh7-54f2-
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > x98r (9.4.53)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > org.eclipse.jetty:jetty-servlets
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9.4.49.v20220914
>> (9.4.53)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-3gh6-v5v9-6v9j
>> (9.4.53)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> org.apache.sshd:sshd-core
>> > > 2.1.0
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (>=2.10.0)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-9279-7hph-r3xw
>> (2.7.0),
>> > > > > > > > GHSA-fhw8-
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8j55-
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vwgq
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (2.9.2),
>> > > GHSA-mjmq-gwgm-5qhm (2.10.0)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> com.google.code.gson:gson
>> > > 2.2.4
>> > > > > > > > (2.8.9)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-4jrv-ppp4-jm57
>> (2.8.9)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > org.webjars:handlebars
>> > > 1.2.1 (4.7.7)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-f2jv-r9rf-7988
>> (4.7.7)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > org.apache.ivy:ivy
>> 2.3.0
>> > > (>= 2.5.2)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-wv7w-rj2x-556x
>> (2.5.1),
>> > > > > > > > GHSA-2jc4-
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > r94c-
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rp7h (2.5.2)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at
>> > > 6:49 AM Jamie
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Johnson
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <jej2...@gmail.com>
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How deep down the
>> rabbit
>> > > hole should
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dependency checks
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > normally
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > go?
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looks like the big
>> ones I
>> > > was
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tracking with
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > security updates were
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > done.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > johnzon 1.2.21
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tomcat 9.0.81
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bouncy castle 1.76
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still poking around
>> a bit
>> > > but
>> > > > > > > > there’s
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > obviously a lot.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 11, 2023
>> at
>> > > 2:09 AM
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zowalla <
>> r...@apache.org
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In theory, every
>> > > committer can act
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > release manager.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some
>> steps in
>> > > the
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > process,
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which requires PMC
>> > > karma,
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > though
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (such as adding a
>> key
>> > > to the KEYS
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > file,
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > moving stuff to the
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > release
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on SVN, start the
>> VOTE,
>> > > etc.).
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The process is
>> > > documented here:
>> > > > > > > > [1]
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That being said:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am currently
>> planning
>> > > to start
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > release process for
>> > > TomEE
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > 9.1.1
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > within this week.
>> Due
>> > > to the
>> > > > > > > > Tomcat
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > security issues
>> released
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yesterday,
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we need to do some
>> > > backporting,
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will consume
>> additional
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > time.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (It
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just interrupted my
>> > > preparations,
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so it
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > needs additional
>> CI /
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > TCK
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cycles)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A release usally
>> > > consumes around
>> > > > > > > > 1-
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hours of work.
>> Mostly
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > because
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have to wait for
>> stuff
>> > > being build
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or to
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > run some basic
>> sanity
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > checks
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > before starting
>> and to
>> > > not forget
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > step.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What would really
>> help
>> > > for a TomEE
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8.0.16
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is to carefully
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > re-check
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > current
>> dependencies
>> > > for important
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3rd
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > party dependencies
>> (and
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > update
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if needed. Note:
>> Each
>> > > update or
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bunch of
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > updates shouldn't
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > break the
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > build. A full
>> build on
>> > > CI takes
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around 4-
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8 hours) on that
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > branch,
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > build
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it locally and
>> conduct
>> > > some sanity
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > checks
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (for example: same
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > lib in
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different versions
>> in
>> > > /lib ->
>> > > > > > > > check
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fix) with the
>> created
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tar.gz/zip files.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is one of the
>> > > steps, which
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > usually
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > consumes a lot of
>> time.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > If
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > want to give it a
>> try,
>> > > I am happy
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to help
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > out for the steps
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > which
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > require PMC
>> involvement.
>> > > > > > > > Otherwise,
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > might find some
>> time in
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > next
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > week to start a
>> release
>> > > of 8.0.16
>> > > > > > > > -
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > let me know and I
>> can
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > plan
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time accordingly
>> ;-)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gruß
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1]
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > https://tomee.apache.org/dev/release-tomee.html
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am Dienstag, dem
>> > > 10.10.2023 um
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 17:56 -
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 0500 schrieb
>> Jonathan S.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fisher:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jean-Louis, are
>> there
>> > > directions
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anywhere? Not
>> > > promising
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > anything
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :)
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 10,
>> 2023
>> > > at 5:22 PM
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jean-
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Louis Monteiro
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
>> > > jlmonte...@tomitribe.com>
>> > > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whomever is
>> > > committer can do
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was just
>> trying
>> > > to give you
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > honest reply
>> > > regarding my
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > availabilities
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and give
>> visibility
>> > > to the
>> > > > > > > > rest
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the community
>> and
>> > > the
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > other
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > committers
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at the same
>> time.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope it helps.
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Le mar. 10 oct.
>> > > 2023, 23:27,
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jamie
>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Johnson <
>> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > --
>> > > > > > > > Jonathan | exabr...@gmail.com
>> > > > > > > > Pessimists, see a jar as half empty. Optimists, in
>> contrast, see
>> > > it as
>> > > > > > > > half full.
>> > > > > > > > Engineers, of course, understand the glass is twice as big
>> as it
>> > > needs to
>> > > > > > > > be.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > --
>> > > > > > Jonathan | exabr...@gmail.com
>> > > > > > Pessimists, see a jar as half empty. Optimists, in contrast,
>> see it
>> > > as
>> > > > > > half full.
>> > > > > > Engineers, of course, understand the glass is twice as big as it
>> > > needs to be.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > --
>> > > > > Jonathan | exabr...@gmail.com
>> > > > > Pessimists, see a jar as half empty. Optimists, in contrast, see
>> it as
>> > > > > half full.
>> > > > > Engineers, of course, understand the glass is twice as big as it
>> needs
>> > > to be.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Jonathan | exabr...@gmail.com
>> > > > Pessimists, see a jar as half empty. Optimists, in contrast, see it
>> as
>> > > > half full.
>> > > > Engineers, of course, understand the glass is twice as big as it
>> needs
>> > > to be.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan | exabr...@gmail.com
>> Pessimists, see a jar as half empty. Optimists, in contrast, see it as
>> half full.
>> Engineers, of course, understand the glass is twice as big as it needs to
>> be.
>>
>

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