Hi Lars,

I think we might codify this as RTC with an exception that if someone wants to 
commit a trivial or non-controversial patch, they still need to post the patch 
for review and specifically request lazy consensus after 72 hours or some other 
time we deem relevant to this project.

Craig

> On Mar 13, 2019, at 2:21 AM, Lars Francke <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 4:34 PM Craig Russell <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 11, 2019, at 6:35 AM, Lars Francke <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Okay, any other opinions?
>>> 
>>> I don't necessarily need "Bylaws" but a good "Contributors Guide" is one
>> of
>>> my pet peeves. So as soon as we have the website up and running I'd like
>> to
>>> get some content up there.
>> 
>> Yes, a contributors' guide is a great thing to add to the user-facing site.
>>> 
>>> I'm usually in favor of review-then-commit but in our case I'm not sure
>> if
>>> that's always going to work.
>>> Ideally we'd have people contribute stuff that neither of us is -
>>> technically I mean - able to review as we won't have experts for every
>>> single field in the committership initially.
>>> But we can of course review for form and style etc.
>>> 
>>> Other than that I'm in favor of requiring a +1 from another committer to
>>> commit anything but this can be painful for small things (e.g. a single
>>> typo). For Hive we established a rule that for small changes (at
>>> contributors discretion) after a delay/request for reviews of 72h or so
>> it
>>> can be committed without feedback.
>> 
>> This sounds reasonable. It's a combination of RTC and CTR with lazy
>> consensus.  Formally, I think it would be described as CTR with discretion
>> to wait until another committer has reviewed a "large" change.
>> 
> 
> I understand what you mean but I (others might disagree) would like to see
> it codified as RTC and have the commit without a review as the exception
> not the other way around. This has been a major pain for me as a "lone"
> non-big-corporate contributor to various projects. You see things happening
> without discussion on any public mailing list/Jira.
> 
> 
> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Craig
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Lars
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 10:11 PM Sharan Foga <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi
>>>> 
>>>> I'd be happy with having both models of Jira and Github in place too.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Sharan
>>>> 
>>>> On 2019/02/25 19:06:28, Lars Francke <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 5:37 AM Kenneth Knowles <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 2:31 PM Lars Francke <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bylaws have gone out of fashion and it’s generally recommend that
>>>>>>> podlings
>>>>>>>> (and TLP) don’t have them and use the “default”.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Really? I didn't notice.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> As the default is often unclear I've created a default simple set
>>>> that
>>>>>>>> graduating projects can use, [1] Legal and board have reviewed
>>>> this.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> That's a good starting point. What I struggle with is that every
>>>> project
>>>>>>> works slightly different in things like: Commit-then-review or
>>>>>>> review-then-commit or whether ReviewBoard needs to be used or patches
>>>>>> need
>>>>>>> to be attached to Jira etc.
>>>>>>> These rules are often not written down which makes it hard to
>>>> contribute.
>>>>>>> This might be a particular pet-peeve of mine because I do - nature
>>>> of the
>>>>>>> job - lots of "drive by" contributions but I'd still love a clearly
>>>>>> defined
>>>>>>> set of rules on how we want to operate.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This includes - and I don't actually know what works there these
>>>> days and
>>>>>>> what doesn't - the Github use.
>>>>>>> If anyone knows what's allowed and possible it'd be great if you
>>>> could
>>>>>>> share.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> At this point, the GitHub pull request model is a de facto standard in
>>>> my
>>>>>> mind. It works great with ASF infra.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The most important thing being that you don't have to read a project's
>>>>>> contribution guide to know how to *request* that they *pull* from your
>>>> fork
>>>>>> of their code. Great for drive-by contributions. If a project doesn't
>>>>>> basically follow this model, I don't trust them to accept outside
>>>> input. We
>>>>>> should definitely use it. I would guess users will be much more likely
>>>> to
>>>>>> also want to casually contribute bits here and there, compared to
>> other
>>>>>> projects. Let's make it easy and fun for them (and bring them on board
>>>> :-).
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I agree that lots of projects use it but most projects I work with work
>>>>> differently (e.g. Hadoop, Kafka, HBase etc.). Some do have a model
>> where
>>>>> both ways are accepted (Jira & Github). I myself am not the biggest fan
>>>> of
>>>>> Pull requests. I'm against using it as the only option. I like the
>>>>> "old-fashioned" way of attaching patches to Jira. It doesn't lock me
>>>> into a
>>>>> workflow provided by a 3rd party. I can download everything offline and
>>>>> prepare a review offline as well. That's not possible with Github (I
>> can
>>>>> download the code but I can't prepare a review for the website
>> offline).
>>>>> 
>>>>> But as I said: I definitely agree that it makes "drive-by"
>> contributions
>>>>> easier so I'm in favor of having both models.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Lars
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Kenn
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Justin
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 1. https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/DefaultProjectGuidelines
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>> Craig L Russell
>> Secretary, Apache Software Foundation
>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> http://db.apache.org/jdo 
>> <http://db.apache.org/jdo> <
>> http://db.apache.org/jdo <http://db.apache.org/jdo>>

Craig L Russell
Secretary, Apache Software Foundation
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://db.apache.org/jdo 
<http://db.apache.org/jdo>

Reply via email to