Hi Craig, On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 6:28 PM Craig Russell <apache....@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > > On Mar 14, 2019, at 5:07 AM, Sönke Liebau <soenke.lie...@opencore.com.INVALID> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > one thing that we need to be a little careful with (I think) is > > updates in donated content. Most of the donated content will probably > > be in Powerpoint format, which is fine if it is donated, converted and > > then retired in Powerpoint format. > > Still, the donation was made in ppt format and we need to keep track of its provenance. Having donations in a separate "donations" part of the repository will make it easy to track, regardless of what we next do with it. No disagreement here. > > I agree with Hans-Peter that the material might be usable as is, or parts might be extracted and used in combination with other works. As long as the material is appropriately attributed, all of this is fine under the ALv2. Also in agreement. > > I'd expect that some of the material will be further processed to convert it to canonical format and combined with other material into aggregate works. All fine from a licensing viewpoint. > > > However there are a few scenarios where updates to Powerpoints might > > become necessary: > > - donated content could potentially be updated by the donor and the > > updated version sent as well (is there a legal question in here > > potentially?) > > No issues. As long as we have some way to name the content so it's easy to find "the original" and "the updated versions" I don't see any logistical issues either. I have to disagree here I'm afraid. If someone for example extracted part of this material and used in somewhere else, he will have to re-extract this based on the assumption that this portion might have changed.
> > > - someone uses the donated content and creates updates before > > conversion is finished > > No issues. Again, I have to disagree. Say I donate my Kafka slides in ppt. Now someone starts in on converting those to asciidoc and is halfway finished when I update my ppt slides and push those under a new name. What we now have is kafka_donated_v1.pptx and kafka_donated_v2.pptx and since you can't really tell what changed in an easy way (see below) the person doing the conversion is now left with the task of identifying changes in the portion of the deck that he or she already converted. > > > - ... > > At that point, we have the issue of having binary files in version > > control again. > > If a work is directly editable, it is not binary. So I'd argue (with anyone who has a different opinion ;-) that files with .ppt, .odt, and other file types are source files because there are editors for them. Happy to argue :) While you are right in principle, have you ever tried to diff a pptx file with git? At some point during the initial discussions for this project, someone stated something along the lines of "while pptx is xml under the hood this is so complex and un-diffable that they can, in essence, be treated as binary files" - I just sort of took that as gospel when writing this. Again, I am absolutely not fundamentally disagreeing with you, I agree that material in pptx can be useful, should be part of the indexed content, properly tagged and all that. But, I do think that the overall target should be to convert everything that is donated into our canonical (and still to be defined) format eventually and updates done directly in there. During that conversion, I think there may be stumbling stones if updates to pptx content come in. > > > > That is all manageable I'm sure, but we should put some thought into > > it up front I think. > > > > Best regards, > > Sönke > > > > On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 6:11 PM Hans-Peter Zorn <hz...@inovex.de> wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> thanks Lars for bringing this up. > >> So, I would also propose a special area or a separate repo for donated content. On the one hand, material in this area could be taken „as is“ for anyone who wants to use it for trainings. On the other hand the material can be consolidated over time in the main/official training material set. This could be converting slides or cherr-picking text and images or just as inspiration. > >> > >> Another option would be to put this into a complete separate (company) repo and to create pull-requests after review/discussion. > > I like the idea of having a separate "contributions" part of the repository. A PR requesting a new addition here should be vetted for provenance before updating the repository. And we should have a naming scheme to allow updates by adding new versions instead of replacing them. Makes it easier to track history if all versions are simultaneously available. Agree again :) > > Regards, > > Craig > >> > >> Kind regards, > >> Hans-Peter > >> > >>> Am 11.03.2019 um 17:22 schrieb Lars Francke <lars.fran...@gmail.com>: > >>> > >>> Another thing I wanted to bring up is donation of existing content. > >>> > >>> We have (partial) trainings on HBase, Hadoop ecosystem basics, Kafka and a > >>> few other minor things ready. But they are PowerPoint. > >>> > >>> The colleagues from inovex have their own existing material, also in > >>> PowerPoint. > >>> > >>> I _hope_ that we'd get other material as well. > >>> > >>> Do we want to accept material no matter the format? > >>> Do we require it to be in a (yet to be decided) canonical format? > >>> Does it need to go through a normal "proper" review? > >>> > >>> I thought about this for a while and it comes back to a point we talked > >>> about in another thread: > >>> Do we have proper releases or do we just tag various trainings with various > >>> maturities? > >>> > >>> I could imagine a "staging" area for donated material and then a "beta" and > >>> a "ga" layer. Or some other verbiage (could even follow the ASF model of > >>> having "podlings" which can graduate). > >>> > >>> Either way: Opinions? > >>> > >>> I'm looking forward to actually working with some content ;-) > >> > > > > > > -- > > Sönke Liebau > > Partner > > Tel. +49 179 7940878 > > OpenCore GmbH & Co. KG - Thomas-Mann-Straße 8 - 22880 Wedel - Germany > > Craig L Russell > Secretary, Apache Software Foundation > c...@apache.org <mailto:c...@apache.org> http://db.apache.org/jdo < http://db.apache.org/jdo> Best regards, Sönke
