That seems to ignore what we agreed and has been said on the threads about
this, and i guess you know that as you said "(IMO :-)". Sad that flouting
consensus warrants a smiley.

   ...ant

On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Raymond Feng <[email protected]> wrote:

>  Hi,
>
> I have made some good progress (IMO :-) to bring up the distribution story
> in 2.x toward M1. The current "all" distribution contains "core" and "ejava"
> (binding.rmi only). You can try to build it with the following command:
>
> cd sca/distribution
> mvn clean install -Pdistribution
>
> Please build the tools and modules first. tuscany-maven-bundle-plugin is
> used to produce some parts of the distribution.
>
> The current story is documented at [1].
>
> Feedbacks are welcome.
>
> [1]
> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/108385/Tuscany+Distribution.pdf?version=1
>
> Thanks,
> Raymond
>
>  *From:* ant elder <[email protected]>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 23, 2009 2:03 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: [2.0] Align samples with the distributions
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Simon Laws <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 11:59 AM, ant elder <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Simon Laws 
>>> <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 11:14 AM, ant elder <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 10:20 AM, Simon Laws <
>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 6:44 AM, ant elder <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I asked early but no ones replied so I'm still missing the point of
>>>>>>> what these manifest classpaths would be used for? If there we use some 
>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>> of launcher there is no need for a manifest classpath is there? A 
>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>> with that one below is that it includes more than just the core 
>>>>>>> dependencies
>>>>>>> which makes it a little misleading.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    ...ant
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Raymond Feng 
>>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have added the support to generate the manifest jars which contain
>>>>>>>> the classpath for a given distribution. JSE users can just use the 
>>>>>>>> manifest
>>>>>>>> jar alone to point to the distro he/she wants. For example, to use 
>>>>>>>> "core"
>>>>>>>> distro, we generate "startup/tuscany-distribution-core-manifest.jar" 
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> the following MANIFEST.MF. Please note it works well with the flat 
>>>>>>>> structure
>>>>>>>> under "modules" for all the jars.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Manifest-Version: 1.0
>>>>>>>> Implementation-Vendor: The Apache Software Foundation
>>>>>>>> Implementation-Title: Apache Tuscany SCA Core Distribution
>>>>>>>> Implementation-Version: 2.0-SNAPSHOT
>>>>>>>> Implementation-Vendor-Id: org.apache
>>>>>>>> Class-Path:
>>>>>>>> ../modules/jaxb-api-2.1/jaxb-api-2.1.jar,../modules/tuscan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> y-definitions-xml-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/runtime-3.3.100-v200705
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 30.jar,../modules/XmlSchema-1.4.2.jar,../modules/tuscany-policy-secur
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ity-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/tuscany-assembly-xml-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ,../modules/tuscany-workspace-impl-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/tuscan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> y-interface-wsdl-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/tuscany-interface-wsdl-x
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ml-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/tuscany-databinding-jaxb-2.0-SNAPSHOT.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> jar,../modules/jobs-3.3.0-v20070423.jar,../modules/tuscany-node-launc
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> her-equinox-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/common-3.3.0-v20070426.jar,..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /modules/tuscany-policy-xml-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/tuscany-works
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> pace-xml-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/activation-1.1/activation-1.1.ja
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> r,../modules/tuscany-interface-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/tuscany-co
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> re-spi-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/tuscany-interface-java-jaxws-2.0-S
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> NAPSHOT.jar,../modules/contenttype-3.2.100-v20070319.jar,../modules/j
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sr181-api-1.0-MR1/jsr181-api-1.0-MR1.jar,../modules/tuscany-policy-2.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/tuscany-binding-sca-xml-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /modules/tuscany-sca-api-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/geronimo-stax-ap
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i_1.0_spec-1.0.1.jar,../modules/tuscany-monitor-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../m
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> odules/wstx-asl-3.2.4/wstx-asl-3.2.4.jar,../modules/registry-3.3.0-v2
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 0070522.jar,../modules/tuscany-implementation-node-runtime-2.0-SNAPSH
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OT.jar,../modules/tuscany-contribution-namespace-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> modules/jsr250-api-1.0/jsr250-api-1.0.jar,../modules/tuscany-host-htt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> p-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/preferences-3.2.100-v20070522.jar,../mo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> dules/cglib-nodep-2.2/cglib-nodep-2.2.jar,../modules/tuscany-interfac
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> e-java-xml-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/tuscany-databinding-2.0-SNAPSH
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OT.jar,../modules/tuscany-node-launcher-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/t
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> uscany-implementation-java-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/tuscany-contri
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> bution-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/tuscany-core-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../m
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> odules/tuscany-definitions-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/asm-all-3.1.ja
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> r,../modules/tuscany-xsd-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/tuscany-node-imp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> l-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/tuscany-contribution-java-2.0-SNAPSHOT.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> jar,../modules/tuscany-implementation-node-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../module
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> s/tuscany-extensibility-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/tuscany-implement
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ation-java-runtime-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/tuscany-extensibility-
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> equinox-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/tuscany-node-api-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ,../modules/tuscany-workspace-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/jaxws-api-2
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> .1/jaxws-api-2.1.jar,../modules/tuscany-endpoint-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> modules/servlet-api-2.5/servlet-api-2.5.jar,../modules/tuscany-core-d
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> atabinding-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/tuscany-contribution-xml-2.0-S
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> NAPSHOT.jar,../modules/tuscany-assembly-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/t
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> uscany-assembly-xsd-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/wsdl4j-1.6.2/wsdl4j-1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> .6.2.jar,../modules/osgi-3.3.0-v20070530.jar,../modules/tuscany-imple
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> mentation-java-xml-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/jaxb-impl-2.1.9/jaxb-i
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> mpl-2.1.9.jar,../modules/tuscany-binding-sca-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> les/tuscany-interface-java-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/tuscany-xsd-xm
>>>>>>>> l-2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar,../modules/app-1.0.0-v20070606.jar
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: ant elder
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:36 AM
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [2.0] Align samples with the distributions
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Raymond Feng <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> More comments inline.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Raymond
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Simon Laws
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 8:41 AM
>>>>>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [2.0] Align samples with the distributions
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Agreed. It's just a local repo. Do you think adding a little
>>>>>>>> structure add technical difficulty or is a flat structure a personal
>>>>>>>> preference? I'm interested in situations like this where we have some 
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> who want solution A and others want solution B (where both solutions 
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> valid). How do we come to a conclusion? In the past this has tended to 
>>>>>>>> stall
>>>>>>>> us a little so this is a good chance to see if we can do better;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm seeing some technical issues:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1) Adding a little structure will make the distribution incompatible
>>>>>>>> with Equinox OSGi launcher and PDE target platform.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I believe this is a statement about how it works just now rather
>>>>>>>> than a statement about blockers for change.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I more view it as a block for introducing structural changes. The
>>>>>>>> current layout can be directly used as an Equinox installation of 
>>>>>>>> bundles or
>>>>>>>> PDE target location.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That seems like FUD to me, I don't see any reason it can't be made
>>>>>>>> to work with either structure. This seems to be the main objection so 
>>>>>>>> if we
>>>>>>>> can show it can work then can we lay this debate to rest?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  ...ant
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had planned to use the manfiest as the compile dependency in sample
>>>>>> ant scripts. It seems a useful shorthand to describe a feature.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What i'm not understanding is why you'd want a compile dependency on a
>>>>> "feature"?  I can see you might want tot use the specific dependencies you
>>>>> know you need, or use wildcards to add all the jars in a folder, or use a
>>>>> launcher to manage the dependencies for you. But as a feature includes
>>>>> multiple different extension types why would you want to use it as a
>>>>> dependency?
>>>>>
>>>>>    ...ant
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> "But as a feature includes multiple different extension types why would
>>>> you want to use it as a dependency? "
>>>>
>>>> Well it depends what you think a feature is.
>>>>
>>>> Some here think features have lots of things in them, others think they
>>>> could have a few things in them. I fall into the latter category.
>>>>
>>>> Some people think that features should be separately distributable some
>>>> think that people will mostly want the all jar. Again I fall into the 
>>>> latter
>>>> category but I would like to build the all jar out of a separate set of
>>>> features rather than all the individual jars.
>>>>
>>>> Why do I want to do that? So that I can refer to individual features
>>>> from my Ant scripts.
>>>>
>>>> Simon
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've understood we've been using the term "feature" to mean the
>>> collection of distributions as was done in the equinox fork. If we change
>>> the term to mean something thats more tightly coupled to each individual
>>> extension that starts to make more sense to me. I'd still wonder if we
>>> really need them if we change to using a launcher, and if we had a
>>> structured lib folder then there doesn't seem any need at all.
>>>
>>> So what a proposal could be for 2.0 M1 would be have a single "all" type
>>> distribution thats just like the 1.x distribution but instead of a single
>>> tuscany-all jar and manifest jar have multiple manifest jars for each
>>> extension (or group of extensions if there are some really tightly coupled
>>> ones).
>>>
>>>    ...ant
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Sounds good to me. It gives us a place to start so we can establish how
>> each type of user we anticipate will exploit the distribution. Doing this
>> will hopefully give us a more complete view. So how about we set this up,
>> close this thread and start a new thread(s) to discuss how each of the
>> different launching options we have already started to discuss will work.
>>
>> Simon
>>
>
> Ok if i don't hear any objections I'll start doing this first thing next
> week.
>
>    ...ant
>

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