I tried building and running the fullapp launcher, there's seems to be some missing snapshots...
Missing: ---------- 1) org.apache.tuscany.sca:tuscany-implementation-widget-runtime-tuscany:jar:2.0 -SNAPSHOT 2) org.apache.tuscany.sca:tuscany-binding-jsonrpc-js:jar:2.0-SNAPSHOT 3) org.apache.tuscany.sca:tuscany-binding-sca-axis2:jar:2.0-SNAPSHOT 4) org.apache.tuscany.sca:tuscany-implementation-ejb:jar:2.0-SNAPSHOT 5) org.apache.tuscany.sca:tuscany-implementation-bpel-ode:jar:2.0-SNAPSHOT 6) org.apache.tuscany.sca:tuscany-implementation-spring-runtime:jar:2.0-SNAPSHO T ---------- 6 required artifacts are missing. for artifact: org.apache.tuscany.sca:scatours-launcher-fullapp:jar:2.0-SNAPSHOT from the specified remote repositories: apache.snapshots (http://repository.apache.org/snapshots), central (http://repo1.maven.org/maven2), indiana (http://ftp.ussg.iu.edu/eclipse/modeling/emf/emf/maven2/), java.net (http://download.java.net/maven/1), intalio.org (http://www.intalio.org/public/maven2), tuscany.repo (http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tuscany/maven), maven.central (http://repo2.maven.org/maven2), apache.incubator (http://people.apache.org/repo/m2-incubating-repository), java.net2 (http://download.java.net/maven/2), apache.ws.zone (http://ws.zones.apache.org/repository2), osuosl.org (http://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/eclipse/tools/emf/maven2) I could overcome this with our local repo but was hoping they could be properly rebuilt and installed on the ASF repo -a- On 3/19/10 10:07 AM, "Albert Tsang" <[email protected]> wrote: > Raymond, > > Thanks for your help! I've checked out the project and will be trying to > the composites that we used for our testing. Will let you know how it goes > and hopefully begin the same profiling. > > -a- > > On 3/17/10 8:42 AM, "Raymond Feng" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I have made some progress here: >> >> 1) The travel sample is copied to >> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tuscany/sca-java-2.x/trunk/tutorials/travelsa>> m >> ple/. I >> updated the pom.xml, MANIFEST.MF. I also migrated the SCA xml files such as >> composite. The java package names are corrected too. There are still >> compilation errors in some projects, but I can run the basic ones now. >> >> 2) I have ported implementation.script and binding.corba into 2.x. They are >> used by the travel sample. >> >> What's left? >> >> 1. The dependency on binding.rss. >> 2. Conversational usage to be cleaned up (I commented out some of the code) >> 3. SCA domain manager dependency >> 4. Bring up the whole scenario ... >> >> Helps are welcome! >> >> Thanks, >> Raymond >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Albert Tsang" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:19 AM >> To: <[email protected]> >> Subject: RE: Travel sample README questions/suggestions >> >>> Sounds great Raymond! I can take a tally of the contributions that I >>> lumped together but it would be great to get all parts of the app working >>> because we'll be using it to benchmark and profile. Thanks! >>> >>> Will put a summary of findings using NeoLoad when I get back into the >>> office >>> >>> -a- >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: Raymond Feng [[email protected]] >>> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 9:53 PM >>> To: tuscany-dev >>> Subject: Re: Travel sample README questions/suggestions >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> FYI: I started to port travelsample to 2.x to cover #1 and #2. I'll let >>> you >>> know when I get something basic working. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Raymond >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Raymond Feng" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 4:38 PM >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Cc: "George Baxter" <[email protected]>; "Chase Garber" >>> <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Travel sample README questions/suggestions >>> >>>> Here is my estimate: >>>> >>>> #1 and #2 should be trivial: 1-2 days >>>> #3: 1 week? >>>> >>>> For those interaction styles or extensions >>>> (implementation/binding/databinding/policy types) supported by 2.x, the >>>> migration should be fairly straightforward. We can try to port as much as >>>> we can. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Raymond >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Albert Tsang" <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 4:22 PM >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> Cc: "George Baxter" <[email protected]>; "Chase Garber" >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: RE: Travel sample README questions/suggestions >>>> >>>>> Raymond, >>>>> >>>>> We're very green on this front however, that being said are interested >>>>> in >>>>> moving this forward for our own purposes as well as contributing back to >>>>> the community to help build momentum. Can you provide an estimate of >>>>> just how much work this would be line by line? There are some things >>>>> that I think can be prioritized later like #4, but critically speaking >>>>> it >>>>> sounds like #1-2 and possibly #3 would need to be done to get the >>>>> travelsample operational. Thoughts? >>>>> >>>>> George - the "fix" that Simon provided regarding getting the context >>>>> back >>>>> from the callback - does this work and does it eliminate the workaround >>>>> need of having to default to conversations? >>>>> >>>>> -a- >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: Raymond Feng [[email protected]] >>>>> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:57 AM >>>>> To: tuscany-dev >>>>> Subject: Re: Travel sample README questions/suggestions >>>>> >>>>> Hi, Albert. >>>>> >>>>> Would you like to share the profiling result with us? We can work >>>>> together >>>>> to remove the bottlenecks to Tuscany more performed and scalable. >>>>> >>>>> The travelsample won't run with Tuscany 2.x as-is. There are some >>>>> migration >>>>> efforts needed: >>>>> >>>>> 1) Port the composite and sca-contribution.xml files into OASIS SCA XML >>>>> syntax. Most of them can be just the namespace changes >>>>> 2) Port the java apis and annotations >>>>> 3) The conversational features are removed in OASIS SCA. We need to >>>>> decide >>>>> what could replace them. >>>>> 4) The SCA domain manager is yet to be ported from 1.x to 2.x. But we >>>>> can >>>>> probably use the EndpointRegistry to achieve the distributed domain. >>>>> 5) We can introduce new things such as OSGi integration in 2.x. >>>>> >>>>> If you are interested in helping this out, I can start to copy the code >>>>> from >>>>> 1.x into 2.x with basic porting, such as pom.xml and namespace changes. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Raymond >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Albert Tsang" <[email protected]> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 4:36 PM >>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>> Cc: <[email protected]> >>>>> Subject: Re: Travel sample README questions/suggestions >>>>> >>>>>> We completed profiling of Tuscany 1.6 on Tomcat 6 and JDK 1.6. Would >>>>>> like to perform the same profile testing with 2.x using the >>>>>> travelsample app again on tc6/jdk1.6. >>>>>> >>>>>> -a- >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 14, 2010, at 4:32 PM, "Simon Nash" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Simon Laws wrote: >>>>>>>> Haven't looked at the travel sample README for a little while. Anyone >>>>>>>> know how up to date it is? >>>>>>> It should be fully up to date and in sync with the current svn code. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For example, the run commands are mostly given as "ant run" but this >>>>>>>> doesn't seem to be the case in the binary distribution. For example, >>>>>>>> from the binary distribution the interaction samples are run using >>>>>>>> "ant run-interaction". So maybe it's just that we need to spell out >>>>>>>> the different types of releases we will have and how to use them. In >>>>>>>> the src distro launchers and contributions will be directories while >>>>>>>> in the bin distro they will be jars. >>>>>>> The "ant run" commands are listed in the section titled "Running the >>>>>>> travel >>>>>>> sample from the build directories" and are correct when running from >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> build directories. For running from the binary distribution, there >>>>>>> is a >>>>>>> later section titled "Running the travel sample from the distribution >>>>>>> directories" which explains the commands needed in this case. Here >>>>>>> is the >>>>>>> paragraph from this section that describes this: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To run a jar, you need to used the command "ant run-jarsuffix" where >>>>>>> "jarsuffix" is the last part of the jar file name omitting the >>>>>>> standard prefix >>>>>>> "scatours-client", "scatours-launcher" or "scatours-service". For >>>>>>> example, >>>>>>> to run the "jumpstart" scenario, you would set your current >>>>>>> directory to the >>>>>>> binary distribution "launchers" directory and run the command >>>>>>> ant run-jumpstart >>>>>>> This runs the travel sample jar file scatours-launcher-jumpstart.jar >>>>>>> using a >>>>>>> classpath with the required runtime dependencies from the Tuscany >>>>>>> SCA binary >>>>>>> distribution. The location of the Tuscany SCA binary distribution >>>>>>> is specified >>>>>>> by the TUSCANY_HOME environment variable). >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Looking at the sample descriptions I'd like to add a little more >>>>>>>> meat. >>>>>>>> For example. currently the description of the interaction sample is >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> follows: >>>>>>>> 4) Interaction - Different SCA interaction styles >>>>>>>> Command: ant run >>>>>>>> Directory: launchers/interaction >>>>>>>> Contributions: calendar, common, currency, flight, hotel, >>>>>>>> interaction-client, >>>>>>>> interaction-service-remote, shoppingcart >>>>>>>> I'd like to flip the Directory and Command lines and then add a >>>>>>>> description section as follows. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Directory and Command lines were originally in the other other, >>>>>>> with Directory first. I changed the order of these when I added >>>>>>> descriptions of the .war samples because these start with a Webapp >>>>>>> line which I thought was more analogous to Command than to Directory. >>>>>>> However, on further reflection it seems that Webapp could equally well >>>>>>> be considered to be analogous to Directory, so I would be fine with >>>>>>> reverting to the previous order and putting Directory first. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I also added the directory/run >>>>>>>> command to for the binary distro but open to suggest about whether/ >>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>> to do this. >>>>>>>> 4) Interaction - Shows different SCA interaction styles >>>>>>>> Directory src(bin): launchers/interaction (launchers) >>>>>>>> Command src(bin): ant run (ant run-interaction) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> This would need a reorganisation of the structure of the README so >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> the sections titled "Running the travel sample from the build >>>>>>> directories" >>>>>>> and "Running the travel sample from the distribution directories" are >>>>>>> merged together into a single section. I'm concerned that doing this >>>>>>> would be more confusing because of the mix of information appearing >>>>>>> together, where some of it only applies to one case or the other. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> An alternative would be to keep the present structure of sections >>>>>>> but add cross-references between them and perhaps also flesh out the >>>>>>> section "Running the travel sample from the distribution directories" >>>>>>> to be more explicit about all the commands that are needed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Another alternative would be to have a new section called something >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> "The travel sample scenarios" which describes the scenarios and >>>>>>> lists the >>>>>>> contributions/launchers/services/clients/webapps/URLs that they use, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> doesn't go into full details of how to run them. These details >>>>>>> would be >>>>>>> provided in separate later sections, one for running from the build >>>>>>> directories and one for running from the binary distribution. This is >>>>>>> probably the best and clearest approach, and I'm happy to make the >>>>>>> edits >>>>>>> for this if others agree with this structure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Contributions: calendar, common, currency, flight, hotel, >>>>>>>> interaction-client, >>>>>>>> interaction-service-remote, shoppingcart >>>>>>>> Description: Each SCA interaction pattern is >>>>>>>> demonstrated >>>>>>>> using a component from the travel booking application. >>>>>>>> We¹re going to see the Hotel, Calendar, CurrencyConverter and >>>>>>>> ShoppingCart components used here. These components >>>>>>>> don't work in isolation so for each interaction pattern we've >>>>>>>> written a simple client component. For example, the >>>>>>>> InteractionLocalClient component demonstrates local interactions >>>>>>>> by sending a local message to the Calendar >>>>>>>> component. The sample launcher will run samples for all of the >>>>>>>> interaction patterns automatically.The launcher starts two >>>>>>>> nodes. Node1 loads the contributions common, currency, calendar, >>>>>>>> shoppingcart and interaction-client and runs the >>>>>>>> client.composite from the interaction-client contribution. All >>>>>>>> local interaction patterns are demonstrate by clients calling >>>>>>>> currency, calendar, and shoppingcart components locally, within >>>>>>>> node1. Node2 loads the contributions common, hotel, >>>>>>>> and interaction-service-remote, and runs the service.composite >>>>>>>> from the interaction-service-remote contribution. This node >>>>>>>> provides the hotel component that client components in node1 can >>>>>>>> send messages to remotely to demonstrate the >>>>>>>> remote interaction pattern. >>>>>>> +1 for adding more detailed descriptions of all the scenarios. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Simon >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thoughts? >>>>>>>> Simon >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Received: from cas-hts01-sc.corp.shutterfly.com (172.16.200.215) by >>>>>>> CAS-HTS03-SC.corp.shutterfly.com (172.16.200.113) with Microsoft >>>>>>> SMTP Server >>>>>>> (TLS) id 14.0.682.1; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 16:32:31 -0700 >>>>>>> Received: from sms-sc03-sc.shutterfly.com (172.16.200.225) by >>>>>>> cas-hts01-sc.corp.shutterfly.com (172.16.200.215) with Microsoft >>>>>>> SMTP Server >>>>>>> id 8.2.213.0; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 16:32:30 -0700 >>>>>>> X-AuditID: ac10c8e0-b7c54ae00000414b-90-4b9d71b8dfd6 >>>>>>> Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) >>>>>>> by >>>>>>> sms-sc03-sc.shutterfly.com (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id >>>>>>> 1A.C8.16715.8B17D9B4; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 16:31:04 -0700 (PDT) >>>>>>> Received: (qmail 17522 invoked by uid 500); 14 Mar 2010 23:32:29 -0000 >>>>>>> Mailing-List: contact [email protected]; run by ezmlm >>>>>>> Precedence: bulk >>>>>>> List-Help: <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> List-Post: <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> List-Id: <dev.tuscany.apache.org> >>>>>>> Reply-To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Delivered-To: mailing list [email protected] >>>>>>> Received: (qmail 17515 invoked by uid 99); 14 Mar 2010 23:32:29 -0000 >>>>>>> Received: from nike.apache.org (HELO nike.apache.org) >>>>>>> (192.87.106.230) by >>>>>>> apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 23:32:29 +0000 >>>>>>> X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=10.0 >>>>>>> tests=RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_NEUTRAL >>>>>>> X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org >>>>>>> Received-SPF: neutral (nike.apache.org: local policy) >>>>>>> Received: from [212.227.126.186] (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) >>>>>>> (212.227.126.186) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sun, >>>>>>> 14 Mar >>>>>>> 2010 23:32:19 +0000 >>>>>>> Received: from [115.189.182.54] (115-189-182-54.mobile.telecom.co.nz >>>>>>> [115.189.182.54]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrbap0) with >>>>>>> ESMTP >>>>>>> (Nemesis) id 0M96Lt-1Nw9o12mlR-00D5xL; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 00:31:59 >>>>>>> +0100 >>>>>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 23:31:58 +0000 >>>>>>> From: Simon Nash <[email protected]> >>>>>>> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) >>>>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Travel sample README questions/suggestions >>>>>>> References: >>>>>>> <[email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> In-Reply-To: >>>>>>> <[email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format=flowed >>>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>>>>>> X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+OwXLVH8WLcyecjVjFMhoo8rRm2RDW73Z6Uat >>>>>>> xLJAkzJPFC0pmpa9vvCPJZNRFRW5GR9ETt+r8XjIyBeclBN879 >>>>>>> 85Cqcx4xZeY2cSZL0IlPQ== >>>>>>> X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org >>>>>>> X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAARM9rGc= >>>>>>> Return-Path: [email protected] >>>>>>> X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AVStamp-Mailbox: SMEX_Ka=;691700;0;This >>>>>>> mail has >>>>>>> been scanned by Trend Micro ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange; >>>>>>> X-MS-Exchange-Organization-SCL: 0 >>>>>>> X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AuthSource: cas-hts01- >>>>>>> sc.corp.shutterfly.com >>>>>>> X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AuthAs: Anonymous >>>>>>> MIME-Version: 1.0 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Simon Laws wrote: >>>>>>>> Haven't looked at the travel sample README for a little while. Anyone >>>>>>>> know how up to date it is? >>>>>>> It should be fully up to date and in sync with the current svn code. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For example, the run commands are mostly given as "ant run" but this >>>>>>>> doesn't seem to be the case in the binary distribution. For example, >>>>>>>> from the binary distribution the interaction samples are run using >>>>>>>> "ant run-interaction". So maybe it's just that we need to spell out >>>>>>>> the different types of releases we will have and how to use them. In >>>>>>>> the src distro launchers and contributions will be directories while >>>>>>>> in the bin distro they will be jars. >>>>>>> The "ant run" commands are listed in the section titled "Running the >>>>>>> travel >>>>>>> sample from the build directories" and are correct when running from >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> build directories. For running from the binary distribution, there >>>>>>> is a >>>>>>> later section titled "Running the travel sample from the distribution >>>>>>> directories" which explains the commands needed in this case. Here >>>>>>> is the >>>>>>> paragraph from this section that describes this: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To run a jar, you need to used the command "ant run-jarsuffix" where >>>>>>> "jarsuffix" is the last part of the jar file name omitting the >>>>>>> standard prefix >>>>>>> "scatours-client", "scatours-launcher" or "scatours-service". For >>>>>>> example, >>>>>>> to run the "jumpstart" scenario, you would set your current >>>>>>> directory to the >>>>>>> binary distribution "launchers" directory and run the command >>>>>>> ant run-jumpstart >>>>>>> This runs the travel sample jar file scatours-launcher-jumpstart.jar >>>>>>> using a >>>>>>> classpath with the required runtime dependencies from the Tuscany >>>>>>> SCA binary >>>>>>> distribution. The location of the Tuscany SCA binary distribution >>>>>>> is specified >>>>>>> by the TUSCANY_HOME environment variable). >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Looking at the sample descriptions I'd like to add a little more >>>>>>>> meat. >>>>>>>> For example. currently the description of the interaction sample is >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> follows: >>>>>>>> 4) Interaction - Different SCA interaction styles >>>>>>>> Command: ant run >>>>>>>> Directory: launchers/interaction >>>>>>>> Contributions: calendar, common, currency, flight, hotel, >>>>>>>> interaction-client, >>>>>>>> interaction-service-remote, shoppingcart >>>>>>>> I'd like to flip the Directory and Command lines and then add a >>>>>>>> description section as follows. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Directory and Command lines were originally in the other other, >>>>>>> with Directory first. I changed the order of these when I added >>>>>>> descriptions of the .war samples because these start with a Webapp >>>>>>> line which I thought was more analogous to Command than to Directory. >>>>>>> However, on further reflection it seems that Webapp could equally well >>>>>>> be considered to be analogous to Directory, so I would be fine with >>>>>>> reverting to the previous order and putting Directory first. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I also added the directory/run >>>>>>>> command to for the binary distro but open to suggest about whether/ >>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>> to do this. >>>>>>>> 4) Interaction - Shows different SCA interaction styles >>>>>>>> Directory src(bin): launchers/interaction (launchers) >>>>>>>> Command src(bin): ant run (ant run-interaction) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> This would need a reorganisation of the structure of the README so >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> the sections titled "Running the travel sample from the build >>>>>>> directories" >>>>>>> and "Running the travel sample from the distribution directories" are >>>>>>> merged together into a single section. I'm concerned that doing this >>>>>>> would be more confusing because of the mix of information appearing >>>>>>> together, where some of it only applies to one case or the other. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> An alternative would be to keep the present structure of sections >>>>>>> but add cross-references between them and perhaps also flesh out the >>>>>>> section "Running the travel sample from the distribution directories" >>>>>>> to be more explicit about all the commands that are needed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Another alternative would be to have a new section called something >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> "The travel sample scenarios" which describes the scenarios and >>>>>>> lists the >>>>>>> contributions/launchers/services/clients/webapps/URLs that they use, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> doesn't go into full details of how to run them. These details >>>>>>> would be >>>>>>> provided in separate later sections, one for running from the build >>>>>>> directories and one for running from the binary distribution. This is >>>>>>> probably the best and clearest approach, and I'm happy to make the >>>>>>> edits >>>>>>> for this if others agree with this structure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Contributions: calendar, common, currency, flight, hotel, >>>>>>>> interaction-client, >>>>>>>> interaction-service-remote, shoppingcart >>>>>>>> Description: Each SCA interaction pattern is >>>>>>>> demonstrated >>>>>>>> using a component from the travel booking application. >>>>>>>> We¹re going to see the Hotel, Calendar, CurrencyConverter and >>>>>>>> ShoppingCart components used here. These components >>>>>>>> don't work in isolation so for each interaction pattern we've >>>>>>>> written a simple client component. For example, the >>>>>>>> InteractionLocalClient component demonstrates local interactions >>>>>>>> by sending a local message to the Calendar >>>>>>>> component. The sample launcher will run samples for all of the >>>>>>>> interaction patterns automatically.The launcher starts two >>>>>>>> nodes. Node1 loads the contributions common, currency, calendar, >>>>>>>> shoppingcart and interaction-client and runs the >>>>>>>> client.composite from the interaction-client contribution. All >>>>>>>> local interaction patterns are demonstrate by clients calling >>>>>>>> currency, calendar, and shoppingcart components locally, within >>>>>>>> node1. Node2 loads the contributions common, hotel, >>>>>>>> and interaction-service-remote, and runs the service.composite >>>>>>>> from the interaction-service-remote contribution. This node >>>>>>>> provides the hotel component that client components in node1 can >>>>>>>> send messages to remotely to demonstrate the >>>>>>>> remote interaction pattern. >>>>>>> +1 for adding more detailed descriptions of all the scenarios. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Simon >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thoughts? >>>>>>>> Simon >>>>>>> >
