Yup that makes sense.

In terms of deployment, it would be nice if there is an option to run
the http server in the same process as ZooKeeper server :)

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Camille Fournier <[email protected]> wrote:
> To the question of "TTL not tied to session":
>
> As far as I know (and again, if we have any etcd experts in the house I'd
> like to hear otherwise) TTL is an attempt to make auto-cleanup happen when
> you have a stateless client model, aka, http. That is the point. You can
> disagree that this is useful but it is pretty hard to have a
> stateless-based system with sessions required if you want to create nodes
> that clean themselves up. There is clear evidence that people are having a
> lot of trouble writing clients for ZK especially in languages like Ruby,
> and both of the major alternatives out there, etcd and Consul, rely on
> http-based APIs (although Consul has some session stuff going on under the
> covers that I honestly don't understand yet so it may do more magic with
> that).
>
> Spitballing, I think that you'd want to create a special monitor for TTL'ed
> nodes that tracked their last touch and auto-deleted on timeout, kind of
> the same way we do with sessions only not with the session-specific
> heartbeat, but via an explicit TTL update via an update on that node. Does
> that make sense?
>
> For the rest:
>
> I don't know enough about http2 to comment on that, maybe that is the right
> way to go :)
>
> Hongchao: Distributed version management, meaning, the version of the data
> in a node? Don't we kind of have that implicitly in the xids? Could we
> expose that, if it is useful?
>
> C
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Hongchao Deng <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> 1. http?http is going to be out of date soon.. I would suggest http2 based
>> grpc:
>> http://www.grpc.io/
>> It also facilitates other client language choices.
>> 2. ttl?If you want to create an ephemeral node, TTL isn't a good design.
>> The notion of TTL comes from the lease in Chubby.
>> It's all about motivations. IIUC, ZooKeeper was built for:- configuration
>> management (metadata store)- leader election
>> Other than these two, etcd provides one more: distributed version
>> management. This is related to Kubernetes design.
>> 3. redesign?Any plan to start ZK-4? A summer project would be enough to
>> start :)
>> - Hongchao Deng
>>
>> > Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 15:09:25 -0400
>> > Subject: design thoughts: node TTLs
>> > From: [email protected]
>> > To: [email protected]
>> >
>> > All,
>> >
>> > I've been doing a bit of research on etcd as part of work for an upcoming
>> > talk, and it has gotten me thinking about what it would take to create an
>> > http version of ZK for certain operations. For many operations you could
>> > put an http proxy in front of ZK to translate, even implementing the
>> > "long-poll-style" watch operation to some extent. But it would be very
>> hard
>> > to do a temporary node via a proxy without a lot of proxy failover
>> > complexity.
>> >
>> > As a bit of background, if you want to do an "ephemeral" node in etcd,
>> you
>> > basically create a key with a TTL. Unless the key is updated with a new
>> > TTL, the key will auto-expire when the TTL is reached. Now, I have a lot
>> of
>> > thoughts about this (seems like you have to implement heartbeats via http
>> > to truly mimic ephemeral nodes which may not be as simple as all this
>> http
>> > sounds), but I do think that if there is appetite for easy http access
>> for
>> > consensus systems we should at least take the time to think about what it
>> > would take for us to provide this. In particular, I think we'd have to
>> make
>> > it possible to create a node with a TTL that is not tied to a particular
>> > session.
>> >
>> > Curious to see if anyone has any thoughts on this. It seems like a bit
>> of a
>> > shame that ZK, which is a good battle-tested system, is frequently being
>> > passed-over these days because of the complexity of clients, and the fact
>> > that it is really pretty damn hard to do a client impl in certain
>> languages
>> > (Ruby is the notable one I've heard).
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > C
>>
>>

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