Bobby Powers wrote: > Great, I am glad there is some interest! I just found your older > email thread, Don, [1] on ideas for Micropolis, and I think that what > I would like to do with system dynamic (SD) modeling can easily > encompass the visual programming [2] ideas you and others have talked > about. I believe the backend to support an agent-based approach is > practically the same as what would be needed to create object-oriented > system dynamics models. I've been reading up as much as I can on what > visual programming tools are available or in development currently for > the XO (I'm downloading an image right now to boot up and play with as > we/I type), it seems like turtle art is the closest thing to fit the > bill. I haven't really played with it much, but it looks quite > impressive! My first thoughts are that it seems very nice for > programming agents (like turtles), but its not as expressive for > constructing system dynamics models (see [3] for some ideas I had a > couple weeks ago as to how SD models could look). Have you looked at Kedama which is part of the Etoys activity ? It is quite powerful for programming up to 10000 turtles in simulations. http://www.squeakland.org/fun_projects/kedama/kedma_welcome.htm
Karl > > It seems there are two main ways I could focus my attention (not > necessarily mutually exclusive): > 1. creating and expanding on a simulation engine that can access and > perform operations on spatial and nonspatial data, and integrate with > the unique features of the XO (collaboratively work on models with > data sets and layers from different machines, for example) > 2. focus on modularizing micropolis, getting its core logic into a > form that is visually programmable on the XO (though Turtle Art, > something new of mine, or even through Develop python editing) and > adding some of the features Don had mentioned like programmable agents > that can edit the world > > > I will also try to post some information on the simulation engine that > I'm currently working on to the web in the next few days, and look at > how turtle art works (to see if there is something that can be adapted > or at least learned from there). Where do the communities interests lie? > > > yours, Bobby > > > [1] http://mailman.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2007-March/001829.html > [2] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Micropolis#Visual_Programming > [3] http://www.bobbypowers.net/mockups.html > > > On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:46 AM, Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: > > 2008/3/18 Bobby Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>: > > Hi, I'm a master's student at the University of Bergen and I'm > interested in > > bringing System Dynamics to the XO. Before I start, if there is > a better > > mailing list for this just let me know (I briefly looked through > the other > > ones liked from the Wiki, and this seemed the most appropriate). > > Welcome! This is the place. > > > System Dynamics (SD) [1][2] aims to help people understand the > world by > > explicitly modeling how pieces of it work and then performing > experiments in > > these models. It is used around the world, frequently in > majority world > > countries, in development planning [3], for example. More > formally, its a > > methodology for examining and describing the behavior of complex > systems > > with an emphasis on the effects that feedback loops and time > delays have. > > At a basic level you have to specify the mathematical equations > for the > > different parts of your system. The same problems can be > solved by writing > > code in a programming language (I had a course taught in Fortran > a year > > ago...), but usually in SD the modeling is done using a visual > editor where > > you can show causal relationships, stocks and flows graphically. I > > personally think the biggest short-fallings of the discipline > are the > > barriers to entry: the current software is far from intuitive > and all the > > major commercial offerings (there are no FLOSS products) > [4][5][6] are very > > expensive (educational licenses alone are frequently > $500 USD). > > > > Will Wright studied SD and used ideas from it when designing > SimCity [7]. > > So I have several things I would like to work on: first is a > core simulator > > that can transform equations into code (I'm currently working on > this for my > > master's thesis, but don't have and funding. eesh): I'm using > the JIT > > library from the LLVM project to be able to do this. Second I > want to > > create a Sugar modeling interface that makes it easy and fun to > create > > models and explore their results (collaboratively, I hope!), and > third I > > want to hook this into Metropolis. I think it would just be so > cool if you > > could click an icon in Metropolis and have the visual model that > controls > > the Metropolis world pop up (in the aforementioned editor) and > be able not > > only to fiddle with parameters, but change the structure! If > all of this > > goes smoothly and there is more time, I would love to add the > ability for > > models to interact with and manipulate geospatial data. > > > > I guess I am looking for people's reaction, is this something > people like? > > We don't just like it. Some of us are quite excited about it. > > We started a discussion not long ago involving. > > * Engineers Without Borders > * The Geographic Information Systems community, including > International Symposium on Digital Earth > * Globe.co.uk <http://Globe.co.uk> (weather stations in schools in > many countries) > * Timepedia.org <http://Timepedia.org> (geographic and other free > time series data) > > about community data gathering of environmental information, feeding > to global mapping, and feeding from there back to communities and out > to NGOs, governments, and international organizations. We are also > discussing collection of health information, and anything else that we > can feed into a computer that bears on the needs of the children and > their communities. > > So the prospect of an engine that can start from our data and give us > a peek into various possible futures is a jump up and dance type of > idea. > > > I'm certainly willing to adapt myself to the collective needs > and I wanted > > to get a discussion started before the application deadline. > > Excellent. > > > Oh I guess a > > little more background on me: I attended RPI in NY, USA for 2 years > > studying computer engineering, but transferred because I wanted > to do > > something more applied. I studied environmental studies (at > SUNY ESF) for a > > couple years, and got back into coding through classes on ecological > > modeling and GIS. I've been pretty heavily coding models, > algorithms and > > interfaces for the past 2 years, mainly in C#, ObjC and some > Fortran, but > > the past 3 months I've been using C++ for 8 hours a day and > Python here and > > there. I've got a Mac with Linux (both FC8 and openSUSE10.3) > and Windows, > > and I've just started over the past few weeks to pick up GTK, > although I've > > used Cairo in a project for a couple months. I've only dabbled > with the XO, > > but am really looking forward to developing bundles for it. > > I am User: Mokurai on the OLPC Wiki, and Founder of Earth Treasury. We > intend to link schools around the world for various educational and > research projects, and to teach the students how to create sustainable > international businesses together. > > > I'm eager to hear what you think! > > yours, > > Bobby Powers > > > > > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_dynamics > > [2] http://www.systemdynamics.org/ > > [3] http://www.millenniuminstitute.net/ > > [4] http://www.vensim.com/ > > [5] http://www.powersim.com/ > > [6] http://www.iseesystems.com/ > > [7] http://www.futuresalon.org/2004/11/will_wright_kic.html > > _______________________________________________ > > Devel mailing list > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > -- > Edward Cherlin > End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business > http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ > "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > _______________________________________________ Devel mailing list [email protected] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
