Hi, Thanks Emma for writing that up.
Just to be clear, Open Healthcare is not a project run by central NHS management with a big budget. It was started recently by one individual, young, geek doctor who is building it up from scratch. I'm pretty sure he is hustling together what little funding he can get. The choice would, as far as I know, no hackday and no chance of building a movement at all. Fully support you about paying good developers properly! For example - if none of us had volunteered before we started mySociety, then it wouldn't exist. But likewise, if Tom hadn't organised to start paying us, it wouldn't exist. So yeah, I guess the hard part is making the transition. You need some kind of volunteering to show what is possible, bootstrap things, and kick them out of their current local maxima... But how do you make sure that doesn't get taken for granted? And it is understood that to do it properly, you have to pay the right people properly (as, say, GDS are). Will make sure Carl sees this thread, Francis (not involved in Rewired State or Open Health Care in any way except as fans of both of them :) On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 08:00:08PM +0000, Emma Mulqueeny wrote: > To clarify, in case any rumours are circulating - we did not do the NHS > hackday because they wanted us to run two events, one of which required a > number of statistical devs working on operations data for 50+ across > boroughs followed by an open hack, for £8.5k. > > The first is expensive, because Rewired State would pay developers to do > this. The second still carries a cost because we have to organise and run > this and we have to live, but we are not expensive! Our day rate is > titchy... > > All of their ambitions are fabulous things but their budget would not > stretch to this and when I suggested that devs would have to be paid - that > this is not just a free R&D session, especially for the NHS - they balked > and would only commit £8.5k for both sessions. (The amount a friend of mine > who runs a lovely research service is being paid by a single hospital for a > single piece of research - not anything like the information you would > expect to receive back from a hack day - at developers' expense). > > Now I am hugely against over-charging gov, and we have a policy that we > only charge at cost for gov, (but with profit for private sector peeps who > can afford it and keep IP). With the NHS hack day, they would not even meet > the *at cost* charges and so we were into donation territory - but I don't > believe in taking the piss, from either side. By doing it at cost (in order > to recompense developers appropriately, see my post from last year about > developers: http://mulqueeny.wordpress.com/2010/11/18/developers/) dated > now but you get what I mean, we would have had to pay out of our own > unfunded and limited budget, to run the NHS hackday(s). > > I just wanted to clarify my position and why Rewired State will not promote > this. They are abusing the goodwill of developers, in my opinion, and by > supporting this I think we are doing the community a disservice. I was > willing to find a way to do this at cost, but not *at* the cost of > develoeprs, that is non-negotiable. I can do stuff in my spare time if I > choose to, I do not expect the community whose faith I hope we have > nurtured, to do the same. > > The NHS should be able to afford to pay developers to do this for them (on > R&D) and if an open hack day, then a decent prize and proper organisations > should be costed in. > > That's my 2pth, feel free to flay me alive but I am firm in my belief that > this is not the type of thing to be supported. > > E > > > > On 23 February 2012 00:18, Emma Mulqueeny <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Yup :) > > > > Emma Mulqueeny > > > > Web: http://rewiredstate.org http://youngrewiredstate.org > > Blog: www.emmamulqueeny.com > > Twitter: @hubmum > > > > Please sign this e-petition to teach our kids to code > > http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/15081 if we get 100,000 > > signatures by September 2012 they will debate it in Parliament. > > > > If you want to know more, please read: > > http://mulqueeny.wordpress.com/2011/09/15/teach-our-kids-to-code-e-petition/ > > > > On 23 Feb 2012, at 00:07, Francis Irving <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I'm not involved in organising the NHS hack day - and I know the > > > organisers have been in contact with Emma! > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 03:49:51PM +0000, David Durant wrote: > > >> Francis, > > >> > > >>> Doctors, developers, datasets, problems, and prizes 26-27th of May @ > > >> University of London > > >>> Union, Malet Street, WC1E 7HY > > >> > > >> To be aware - this is on the same weekend as the Rewired State > > #soctvnews > > >> event which is also targeting keen hack-day-type developers. > > >> > > >> You might want to have a chat with Emma and Adam (CCd). > > >> > > >> David Durant > > >> > > >> On 21 February 2012 01:34, Francis Irving <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Are you a nurse/doctor who moans that NHS software is just too > > >>> *unusable* compared to your iPhone? > > >>> > > >>> Or a geek watching a bill passing through Parliament with horror, > > >>> wishing there was something practical they could do to save the NHS? > > >>> > > >>> If so (or even if you love the bill and the NHS!) come to this open > > >>> source, open data, NHS application hack day. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Doctors, developers, datasets, problems, and prizes > > >>> 26-27th of May @ University of London Union, Malet Street, WC1E 7HY > > >>> > > >>> http://nhshackday.com/ > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> (Obligatory conflict of interest: I run ScraperWiki, and it is likely > > >>> that we'll at least give a mug as a prize, and possibly do more, but > > >>> this event is very much not run by ScraperWiki or mySociety; > > >>> > > >>> It's run by a fabulous new open healthcare group: > > >>> http://www.openhealthcare.org.uk/) > > >>> > > >>> Francis > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> developers-public mailing list > > >>> [email protected] > > >>> > > https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/mailman/listinfo/developers-public > > >>> > > >>> Unsubscribe: > > >>> > > https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/mailman/options/developers-public/dave%40bowsy.co.uk > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Omnes homines natura scire desiderant > > >> Twitter : @cholten99 > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> developers-public mailing list > > >> [email protected] > > >> > > https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/mailman/listinfo/developers-public > > >> > > >> Unsubscribe: > > https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/mailman/options/developers-public/francis%40mysociety.org > > > > > > > > > -- > Director Rewired State http://rewiredstate.org and Young Rewired State > http://youngrewiredstate.org > > 07730 570 647 (no voicemail) > > Cause: Teaching kids to code (computer programming). Please sign this > government petition. If we get 100,000 signatures by September 2012, they > will debate this subject in Parliament. Please sign here > http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/15081 > > If you want to know more, please read this: > http://mulqueeny.wordpress.com/2011/09/15/teach-our-kids-to-code-e-petition/ _______________________________________________ developers-public mailing list [email protected] https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/mailman/listinfo/developers-public Unsubscribe: https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/mailman/options/developers-public/archive%40mail-archive.com
