Hi Oskar,
On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 01:19:27PM +0200, Oskar Sandberg wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 17, 2001 at 06:49:57PM -0700, Ray Heasman wrote:
> > Hi Oskar,
>
> Hello Ray! How are Martha and the kids doing?
I'm sorry my standard salutation annoys you.
> > On Sat, Jun 16, 2001 at 01:11:58AM +0200, Oskar Sandberg wrote:
> > > > Why? Why must data be mobile? I dont follow you. Mobile data is data using
> > > > bandwidth unnecessarily. What is your context? What are you actually saying?
> > > > I'm not trying to be difficult, I honestly have nooo idea where you are
> > > > coming from. :-)
> > >
> > > Maybe you should consider the goals of this project. There are many ways
> > > to place data on a network so that it can be found.
> >
> > Um. Is that supposed to be an answer? How very Zen.
>
> Yes, it is an answer. The objectives of this project go beyond creating
> a distributed datastore (which can be done using hypercube routing, see
> Plaxton etc), and we have many auxiliary requirements regarding the
> survivability of data, resistance to localised attacks, and at least
> some level of anomity for publishers and readers. It is clear that
> highly mobile data is an essential ingredient in these.
Hmm.
1) You make arbitrary statements. Flying can be done using flat surfaces.
2) "It is clear" does not constitute an argument. Even were your statement
always true, a naive design nullifies a potentially good concept.
3) If you want to make indefensible statements, do not be surprised when
people demand you explain yourself.
4) What is the point of having a developer mailing list if we can't discuss
ideas in a useful fashion? I would like to use this list as a place to learn
about freenet design details. I want to know how it works, not what the code
does. If I'm wrong, tell me I'm wrong, but don't bother unless you tell me
why I'm wrong. If nobody has the time, then so be it. Tell me and I'll
leave you all alone.
5) If you wish to make appeals to authority, please give full references. I
have dealt with hypercube routing in parallel processing architectures, but
am not sure of the context here. I found
http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/did/19555 , but I can't find anything to do with
hypercubes by Plaxton. Still, it looks like interesting reading.
Furthermore, the current state of freenet is:
1) Survivability of data. Maybe 15 minutes, for most of it.
2) Resistance to localised attacks. What resistance? In the current network,
requesting a file is an attack.
3) Well done on the anonimity. Nothing I have suggested would have affected
it, but anyway. Oh yes, please refer to (1) and (2). Your lost data is
anonymous. Well done.
So far, the track record is not very good. Fair enough, Freenet is work in
progress. It's not a very imposing track record to be used as a source of
authority, though.
> I may do such a test, but I find it rather futile, since:
> a) It has no application to reality.
> b) It won't work.
Then why do the test? Be consistent. Are you afraid of annoying Martha and
the kids? Either my argument has merit, or not.
Thank you for the well reasoned discourse. At no time have I tried to make
this personal, and my participation here has been an honest attempt to help
and to learn.
Put your money where your smart alec mouth is. Or better yet, try to make
statements you are willing to defend reasonably.
I am sorry that the prerequisites for talking to me are so onerous. Please
don't waste your time talking to me unless you wish to follow through.
Good luck.
Sometimes sarcastic,
Ray
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