On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 11:25:08AM -0800, Mike Stump wrote:
> This isn't working:
> 
> Oct 26, 2003 5:53:46 PM (freenet.PeerPacketMessage,  write interface thread, 
> NORMAL): Took 1143 seconds to send [EMAIL PROTECTED]:freenet.Message: QueryRejected 
> @null @ 29166ecc7cf191: htl=1, reason=Node 
> overloaded:QueryRejected{Close=false,Sustain=false,DataLength=0,{HopsToLive=1,Reason=Node
>  overloaded,Attenuation=1,UniqueID=29166ecc7cf191,}}:null:true, 
> prio=1(notifySuccess(null)! (last connection registered 7778 seconds ago on [EMAIL 
> PROTECTED] (DSA(64a4 40e5 401b b3af 9d19  47be 0436 189c 3407 
> 5eab),tcp/12.247.157.104:26694, sessions=1, presentations=1, ID=DSA(64a4 40e5 401b 
> b3af 9d19  47be 0436 189c 3407 5eab)): outbound attempts=2:13/15
> Oct 26, 2003 5:53:46 PM (freenet.PeerPacketMessage,  write interface thread, 
> NORMAL): Took 2210 seconds to send [EMAIL PROTECTED]:freenet.Message: QueryRejected 
> @null @ cbb4370c3201e6f4: htl=5, reason=Required protocol version is 
> 1.47:QueryRejected{Close=false,Sustain=false,DataLength=0,{HopsToLive=5,Reason=Required
>  protocol version is 1.47,Attenuation=0,UniqueID=cbb4370c3201e6f4,}}:null:true, 
> prio=1(notifySuccess(null)! (last connection registered 81 seconds ago on [EMAIL 
> PROTECTED] (DSA(d723 922d 6e7a 7226 6203  498d d358 e88c 03dc 
> b14d),tcp/24.208.128.31:30721, sessions=1, presentations=1, ID=DSA(d723 922d 6e7a 
> 7226 6203  498d d358 e88c 03dc b14d)): outbound attempts=0:0/0
> Oct 26, 2003 5:53:49 PM (freenet.PeerPacketMessage,  write interface thread, 
> NORMAL): Took 317 seconds to send [EMAIL PROTECTED]:freenet.Message: QueryRejected 
> @null @ 8c6d4c8c4f4cbf86: htl=18, reason=Node 
> overloaded:QueryRejected{Close=false,Sustain=false,DataLength=0,{HopsToLive=12,Reason=Node
>  overloaded,Attenuation=1,UniqueID=8c6d4c8c4f4cbf86,}}:null:true, 
> prio=1(notifySuccess(null)! (last connection registered 553 seconds ago on [EMAIL 
> PROTECTED] (DSA(66d7 6419 5569 c1b1 469d  0492 702a 00a8 303e 
> 5950),tcp/12.235.108.80:17704, sessions=1, presentations=1, ID=DSA(66d7 6419 5569 
> c1b1 469d  0492 702a 00a8 303e 5950)): outbound attempts=1:0/1
> Oct 26, 2003 5:53:51 PM (freenet.PeerPacketMessage,  write interface thread, 
> NORMAL): Took 2045 seconds to send [EMAIL PROTECTED]:freenet.Message: QueryRejected 
> @null @ 8498fa9f302fb500: htl=7, reason=Required protocol version is 
> 1.47:QueryRejected{Close=false,Sustain=false,DataLength=0,{HopsToLive=7,Reason=Required
>  protocol version is 1.47,Attenuation=0,UniqueID=8498fa9f302fb500,}}:null:true, 
> prio=1(notifySuccess(null)! (last connection registered 86 seconds ago on [EMAIL 
> PROTECTED] (DSA(d723 922d 6e7a 7226 6203  498d d358 e88c 03dc 
> b14d),tcp/24.208.128.31:30721, sessions=1, presentations=1, ID=DSA(d723 922d 6e7a 
> 7226 6203  498d d358 e88c 03dc b14d)): outbound attempts=0:0/0
> 
> 
> I have 304 transmitting (from an 8KB/s upstream) and if my CPU was
> faster it feels like it would want to devolve into a 1500 transmitting
> to achieve the 5 bytes/sec transmit rate it wants to be.  The problem
> is that general says I am using 30% of my upstream.  304 transmitting
> using 30%?  Does this mean that 70% of my upstream is free or that 70%
> is used for other things?  If for other things, what things?
> 
> Instead, lets queue up the transmits and do the very last one queued
> first, before all others.  If the upstream isn't 100% pegged, open up
> another, keep doing that until we peg the upstream.  Once it is
> pegged, we don't transmit any others until it unpegs.

No, we can't. Because in general we do not control the speed at which
the data is coming in - we don't control it for requests (though we try
to optimize it in routing), and we don't control it at all for inserts,
which may be malicious. So if I implement what you say, Mallory can
simply start a really slow insert of a huge file on your node, and your
node will not send anything else until it has finished - a low-bandwidth
DoS.
> 
> What we have now feels like a collapsed network that is grinding under
> its own request load.  Queing up a QR for 2000 seconds just isn't
> right.  Is this the design that someone wanted?

We shall see. The node you are sending the QR to may itself be
overloaded. However, the QR should have timed out before that. I will
look into it when I can reproduce it locally.
> 
> And an indication that something is wrong:
> 
> Lowest global time estimate   233249ms
> Highest global time estimate  1106205ms
> 
> that's over 18 minutes.  My browser times things out after 60 seconds.
> Reading web pages that take 18 minutes per link, isn't useful.  Start
> with the idea that if they don't read it in the next 10 seconds, they
> never want to read it.  Gear the network up to make it happen that
> way.

Not necessarily, for splitfiles.
> 
> As a separate architecture, we need to formalize large content
> transfer.  Here the queuing technology should be equitable, and FIFO
> and can devolve to needing a day to move a file.  Actually, if we
> register postal addresses per DSA and then when things queue up past 5
> days, we can burn a CD and mail it via land mail and get an upper
> limit of a week latency and 462 KB/second throughput, assuming 10
> DVD-RW disks a day.  :-)
> 
> Hum, maybe a usenet style architecture and we just pass the most
> popular content through to fill the pipe, after that we just trim.
> Usenet offers 0 latency, in some respects great anonymity and privacy
> and low lawsuit potential.  The idea would be that as you request
> content, you connect into the edges and as your upstream edge goes
> away, you connect to their upstream, when they come back, they connect
> lower in the chain.  If you can handle a higher upstream, you migrate
> closer to the center.  If you are unreliable, have a small upstream or
> high latency, you migrate to the edges.  Most content would be from
> one of two connections, one up (nearer to the network center) and one
> down, away from the network center.
> 
> Old content can be gotten from the edges of the network or from a FIFO
> queue from a small fixed % of the upstream of each node.
> 
> As not everyone wants the same fixed content from the network, a
> dynamic ability to have many such networks all running in parallel.
> The trick is then seeing if we can get the anonymity out of such a
> design.
> 
> Usenet is an interesting comparison.  Usenet goes for around $1/gig,
> with a 18 to 180 day retention, depending upon how large the avereage
> post size is.  If some large operator offered freenet access at
> $1/gig, would we have a design that was less secure?  Fred would
> migrate connections to them by itself, and if they were required by
> law to log access, would freenet be any different than usenet?

-- 
Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.

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