Well, if you are exchanging electronically, you are probably able to move the latter as easily as the former, no?
Sadly no, because of the [ insert favourite expletive ] NATs which kill DCC. But you can move a small file with IM clients, surely? It's moving a file and then double clicking on it or even executing it in place, versus copying a line of text manually. So it would be easier for IRC and other stuff crippled by NATs. Would it be easier for anything practically used by semi-geek (rather than ubergeek) users? Also you can write it down. However, because it would probably have to be a one-time password (for security when dealing with newbies; if it's a two way exchange, you could maybe have more permanent passwords, at a cost in security), you can't remember it and write it down. And even if it wasn't one-time, you probably can't write it down anyway if you don't have a semistatic IP - but a lot of people *do* have semistatic IPs... Anyway, it would help in some cases, sure. So we should probably have both. On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 09:05:56AM -0600, Ian Clarke wrote: > You don't understand why: > > 43.213.43.1:54533:foriemdhs > > ...is easier than... > > identity=MZHvIrRsHRLqqTaEN-S5lLpeD8yk572zFfPFxsCsS-M > location=0.16978598221719554 > testnet=false > myName=SanityMBP > lastGoodVersion=Fred,0.7,1.0,1009 > sig=1fd90af28fddd96d0b159c7bd93658f9267b84dbacef75bc400074258eabe81e,433cac175114111647b4d1e0af84448c34620adb6accf307e14daf72960a8048 > version=Fred,0.7,1.0,1009 > dsaPubKey.y=Xw1RbImKwC5EYlfOZtvV0nUz-ujplXfW6IHq125LfajUe2m6sA~IHwvu75wtCvdp~TgjNlgddQMhVBtOkhvSIr1cdiWFYqSaeULGFDeFJdON8PZj1Apt7IN2xIVh17WUA99JoeZhCKUH9d-nKubllovx0qFyVpezkPaluWhQrOx0JCYEYJOmah5xIUlvdPfG7bkSWGnWDq5VfJAQTIW~XW2CBjtXh1jbsfOAE1l9k35JY44jNJ4Ehq-qlPLYO1gqpHE~HsikKxYFGX3FcByxRIYCTxVTSfO9bx6vAxzaBQnDIC6zthhzKJAezRJEM~YZ4zZA0q39~0Y8eKK1yIrSOQ > physical.udp=sanity1.dyndns.org:14505;76.167.194.83:14505 > dsaGroup.g=UaRatnDByf0QvTlaaAXTMzn1Z15LDTXe-J~gOqXCv0zpz83CVngSkb--bVRuZ9R65OFg~ATKcuw8VJJwn1~A9p5jRt2NPj2EM7bu72O85-mFdBhcav8WHJtTbXb4cxNzZaQkbPQUv~gEnuEeMTc80KZVjilQ7wlTIM6GIY~ZJVHMKSIkEU87YBRtIt1R~BJcnaDAKBJv~oXv1PS-6iwQRFMynMEmipfpqDXBTkqaQ8ahiGWA41rY8d4jDhrzIgjvkzfxkkcCpFFOldwW8w8MEecUoRLuhKnY1sm8nnTjNlYLtc1Okeq-ba0mvwygSAf4wxovwY6n1Fuqt8yZe1PDVg > dsaGroup.q=ALFDNoq81R9Y1kQNVBc5kzmk0VvvCWosXY5t9E9S1tN5 > dsaGroup.p=AIYIrE9VNhM38qPjirGGT-PJjWZBHY0q-JxSYyDFQfZQeOhrx4SUpdc~SppnWD~UHymT7WyX28eV3YjwkVyc~--H5Tc83hPjx8qQc7kQbrMb~CJy7QBX~YSocKGfioO-pwfRZEDDguYtOJBHPqeenVDErGsfHTCxDDKgL2hYM8Ynj8Kes0OcUzOIVhShFSGbOAjJKjeg82XNXmG1hhdh2tnv8M4jJQ9ViEj425Mrh6O9jXovfPmcdYIr3C~3waHXjQvPgUiK4N5Saf~FOri48fK-PmwFZFc-YSgI9o2-70nVybSnBXlM96QkzU6x4CYFUuZ7-B~je0ofeLdX7xhehuk > ark.pubURI=SSK at > 1CA0TRYSSEnK~Tj7-OqVajmsqS85iUVhjmuz8EU9HQs,MuvO8pTCCPCTqUIMpkEXUBu55nV2DgiGjhSgr~9FY0I,AQABAAE/ark > ark.number=128 > End > > I think it speaks for itself. > > Ian. > > On 3/5/07, Matthew Toseland <toad at amphibian.dyndns.org> wrote: > > I don't understand why a password and IP address is easier than a > > one-time reference. I suppose it has the advantage of being able to > > write it down - but for it to be secure it would need to be a one-time > > password; you'd need to generate a new one every time ... > > > > Hmmm. Maybe we should provide both mechanisms? > > > > On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 01:13:43PM -0500, Colin Davis wrote: > > > It solves #2- Don't run things you get in e-mail.. > > > > > > Instead of requiring a Noderef, allow someone to connect with just a > > > password, and the IP address. This is something you can TELL someone, or > > > say in an IM, no file transfer required. > > > > > > Dave Baker wrote: > > > > On Monday 05 March 2007 18:02:42 Colin Davis wrote: > > > >> I know it's less secure, but what about simply allowing people to > > > >> connect to your machine if they know a passphrase? The passphrase would > > > >> take the place of the Key, but be user-settable, and short. > > > > > > > > That doesn't solve either problem though, surely? > > > > > > > > my 2p on #freenet: > > > > > > > > [17:48] <dbkr> as far as both-way-adding goes, I think that's where we > > > > reach a > > > > tradeoff with security, which is one of the main challanges for Freenet. > > > > [17:49] <dbkr> I'm not convinced the whole difficulty of exchanging > > > > refs isn't > > > > a red herring - everyone can handle emailing a file. > > > > > > > > I'm definately in favour of the ability to burn a CD with an installer > > > > on it > > > > that installs a node with your reference pre-bundled, although I think > > > > leaving the installer out for an emailed-version means it's nothing the > > > > user > > > > couldn't do themselves. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> If that were in place, you could send an e-mail saying: > > > >> > > > >> Hey Jon, I just found this cool new thing called freenet, which lets > > > >> you > > > >> get to all sorts of sites which aren't on the normal web! It's > > > >> anonymous, and free, you should check it out. It works by connecting > > > >> through each other's computers, but I'll let you connect to me to get > > > >> started. > > > >> > > > >> Go to FreenetProject.org and download it, then give it my hostname, > > > >> which is XXXXXXX and give it the connection passphrase "IamNotEvil". > > > >> > > > >> Don't give anyone else that information, or it won't work. It'll only > > > >> allow one connection.. After your up, you can connect to other friends, > > > >> and everyone's connection gets faster. > > > >> > > > >> I'm on IM if you want to talk about it. > > > >> -Person you Know. > > > >> > > > >> Matthew Toseland wrote: > > > >>> We will only get a darknet if it is really easy to swap references > > > >>> with > > > >>> your friends - opennet or no opennet. > > > >>> > > > >>> The original idea for Freenet 0.7 reference swapping was that you: > > > >>> - Go to your node, and ask it to create a bundle. > > > >>> - Send the bundle to your friends. > > > >>> - They unzip it and run it to install Freenet. > > > >>> - The bundle includes your noderef. > > > >>> - It also includes a one-time key that allows the node to > > > >>> automatically > > > >>> connect to yours despite yours not having their noderef yet. > > > >>> > > > >>> There are two big problems with this: > > > >>> > > > >>> 1) Everyone and his dog is behind a NAT. This means in order to > > > >>> connect > > > >>> you must have already exchanged references, full stop. THIS SUCKS. It > > > >>> also affects connectivity for newbies in a bad way (which is important > > > >>> IMHO). > > > >>> > > > >>> 2) Generally people shouldn't run programs that they receive in > > > >>> emails! > > > >>> > > > >>> Solution to the first one - and to newbie connectivity issues - is to > > > >>> implement UP&P and hope that routers implement it properly in future - > > > >>> is this a realistic hope? > > > >>> > > > >>> Solution to the second one is to just send the noderef and a link to > > > >>> the > > > >>> website, and only use full bundles when e.g. giving somebody a CD-R > > > >>> (which we should make really easy). > > > >>> > > > >>> Plugins for e.g. IRC clients, IM clients, have been suggested but I'm > > > >>> not sure how well this would work for newbies, and in any case I set > > > >>> up > > > >>> a darknet-tools list for people to talk about this and nobody has even > > > >>> talked about it since a few days after it was set up, let alone done > > > >>> anything. > > > >>> > > > >>> <_ph00> so the basic problem is "how to safely exchage refs", and the > > > >>> solution "eliminate ref exchanging by implementing opennet"?!? Am I > > > >>> the > > > >>> only one to think that's very stupid? > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >>> > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> Devl mailing list > > > >>> Devl at freenetproject.org > > > >>> http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Devl mailing list > > > >> Devl at freenetproject.org > > > >> http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Devl mailing list > > > > Devl at freenetproject.org > > > > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Devl mailing list > > > Devl at freenetproject.org > > > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > > > iD8DBQFF7Jt7A9rUluQ9pFARAr7gAJ9iJHAur3dIsrClY+AmFSQgOy6bXgCfY2Po > > kqDOiGlYjY/lZ0v66rlsip0= > > =NcEY > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Devl mailing list > > Devl at freenetproject.org > > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > > > > > -- > Founder and CEO, Thoof Inc > Email: ian at thoof.com > Office: +1 512 485 1970 > Cell: +1 310 593 3724 > AIM: ian.clarke at mac.com > Skype: sanity > _______________________________________________ > Devl mailing list > Devl at freenetproject.org > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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