This tool could also come as a *plugin* to KiCad, although I think it would make it more popular to include it as one of the calculator's tools. I know that Pierre Le Gargasson is starting to work on such a plugin (s far as I know, his idea is to provide a computed carbon intensity impact of the designed PCB). I will discuss this with him in 2 weeks, when he will be presenting some related work during the sustainable electronics symposium in Grenoble. Some additional ideas / inputs will probably follow.
All the best, Vincent. Le dimanche 30 novembre 2025 à 03:51:15 UTC+1, [email protected] a écrit : > I saw the previous emails on the topic but haven't had the time to reply > yet. > > I've been looking at the PCB calculator, because it has some issues that > break my workflow, and am happy to help with panel design. Currently, I'd > say the topic is blocked on a decision here: > https://gitlab.com/kicad/code/kicad/-/issues/22385#note_2912749088 > > One thing I'd say is that the idea of endlessly nesting wxBoxSizer with > alternating horizontal and vertical layouts leads to bad designs, which are > visually unappealing and cause issues with resizing. It's better to use > wxGridBagSizer and do a table layout. > > Best regards > Jan > > On Thu, Nov 27, 2025 at 3:26 PM Vincent Grennerat <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> Here are some answers to your feedbacks: >> >> *@Seth*: I think we are not at the step of a panel mock-up. First step >> is probably to check whether some developers of the community want to put >> some energy on this or not. Hence the workgroup idea I suggested: if we >> think we have some non-questionnable impact indicators, and it is relevant >> to have it in KiCad, then we can move forward to the design of the tool. >> >> *@Munzo*: it is difficult to sum-up in a few lines the probable best >> strategies to reduce the ecological footprint of PCBs. It is highly >> interdependent with reliability, lifetime expectancy, modularity etc... As >> far as the schematic and layout designer is concerned, it can involve the >> following choices: >> - *substrate*: do I choose a Rogers RO3000 because it has lower HF >> losses than FR4, or do I accept a bit higher power consumption of my RF Tx >> chip because I choose FR4 for its lower manufacturing and end-of-life >> impacts? Probably same question in the near future with bio-substrates >> which will have lower impact than FR4 but some technological drawbacks. >> - *Manufacturing process* (multilayers, stack-up, micro-vias etc...): >> designers limit their PCB complexity mainly because of manufacturing cost, >> but with potential recycling technologies to come (let's remind everyone >> that currently everything is just burnt, when not ditched!), the ecological >> impacts will not be proportional to manufacturing cost. Here we have an >> indicator related to the manufacturing impacts but also to recycling >> technology. It will probably evolve a lot during the next years, and is >> probably the most difficult to estimate. >> - *Copper*: the current practice with subtractive tech is "You pay for >> the copper, leave it on the board!". But removing the maximum of the copper >> at the manufacturing step (everything that does not have an electrical or >> thermal function), in compliance with the panelization balancing >> strategies, could enable a much much shorter circularity loop for copper, >> which is becoming a more and more critical resource: all the etched copper >> is highly pure, with low recycling cost (but OK, it slightly increases the >> manufacturing cost), compared to a potential collect at end-of-life, with >> costly and very poor recycling yield. Let's also keep in mind that the >> recycling of the copper at end-of-life is topic. >> >> *@Angelo*: In the end, the pistachios are not so far from what is >> currently going on around the more sustainable electronics topic :-) Take a >> look at the below links. There even was some tries in the past with coconut >> shells or banana fibres! >> JIVA Soluboard: https://www.jivamaterials.com/technology/ >> DESIRE4EU consortium research: >> https://desire4eu-eic.eu/state-of-the-art-challenges-and-ambitions/ >> >> >> >> Le mardi 25 novembre 2025 à 17:54:55 UTC+1, [email protected] a écrit : >> >> Hello Vincent- >> >> I'd be happy to hear more about what you have in mind for design rules >> that can improve this. If you have design mock-ups for calculator panels >> and/or DRC-type rules that can be codified, we should be able to work with >> you to help implement them. >> >> The best way to share these ideas would be in a GitLab issue report. Use >> KiCad's Help->Report Bug menu option to get the link and formatting. Then, >> add your description and images. In this case, images will be very >> important. >> >> Seth >> >> [image: KiCad Services Corporation Logo] >> Seth Hillbrand *Lead Developer* +1-530-302-5483 Long Beach, CA >> www.kipro-pcb.com [email protected] >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 25, 2025 at 3:15 AM Vincent Grennerat <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> I have been continuously using KiCad since 2005 (I am a former colleague >> of JP Charras), and I am now focusing my research on increasing the >> sustainability of electronics, especially at the PCB level. In this context >> I am member of the DESIRE4EU research project (https://desire4eu-eic.eu) >> which has the aim to bring to industry new innovative low-impact substrates >> for PCB, compatible with current subtractive manufacturing technologies. >> With Arduino onboard, we are currently designing (on KiCad of course!) the >> next IoT Arduino board, through an eco-design approach. >> >> Part of my work consists of exploring new PCB design rules that would >> significantly contribute to reduce the ecological footprint of PCBs >> (typically 5 to 25% of an assembled electronic board), at the manufacturing >> step and at end-of-life. I now think that CAD softwares could include sone >> kind of eco-design tool to help the designers in evaluating and reducing >> the ecological footprint of their design. The tool could be part of the >> KiCad toolbox, inside the PCB Calculator application. Among other things, >> it would probably rely on life cycle assessment macro-results (a small >> database), upstream produced by some LCA software. >> >> I cannot be a software contributor to KiCad, but if some developers show >> interest in this potential new tool, I could contribute to provide the >> inputs and the design of the tool. I suppose that this "eco-design rules" >> concept can seem rather vague for a lot of people, and I'd be delighted to >> develop our research results on copper circularity, and how we can rethink >> our way of laying out copper on the PCB layers. >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "KiCad Developers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> >> To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/d/msgid/devlist/2d4cbc40-474c-4e5e-baf9-018e9f83d97an%40kicad.org >> >> <https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/d/msgid/devlist/2d4cbc40-474c-4e5e-baf9-018e9f83d97an%40kicad.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "KiCad Developers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/d/topic/devlist/s4_6iNToErI/unsubscribe >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> [email protected]. >> To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/d/msgid/devlist/e054513d-7aed-4970-a77b-5718203ffd88n%40kicad.org >> >> <https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/d/msgid/devlist/e054513d-7aed-4970-a77b-5718203ffd88n%40kicad.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > > -- > Jan Dorniak > e-mail:[email protected] > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "KiCad Developers" group. 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