Guillaume Lerouge wrote: > Hi, > > On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On May 14, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote: >> >>> Hi Vincent, >>> >>> Vincent Massol wrote: >>>> On May 14, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi there, >>>>> >>>>> Right now the new WYSIWYG editor allows us to create simple lists >>>>> like >>>>> the following: >>>>> >>>>> ----------8<---------- >>>>> * plants >>>>> * animals >>>>> ** invertebrates >>>>> ** vertebrates >>>>> ---------->8---------- >>>>> >>>>> By pressing just Enter when the caret is inside a list item we >>>>> create a >>>>> new list item. This is the basic mechanism. It's simple and it >>>>> should >>>>> remain so. >>>>> >>>>> If I want to make the previous list a bit more complex: >>>>> >>>>> ----------8<---------- >>>>> * (((= Plants = >>>>> >>>>> Plants are living organisms belonging to the kingdom Plantae.))) >>>>> * (((= Animals = >>>>> >>>>> Animals are a major group of mostly multicellular, eukaryotic >>>>> organisms >>>>> of the kingdom Animalia or Metazoa. >>>>> >>>>> They are divided into:))) >>>>> ** (((== Invertebrates == >>>>> >>>>> An invertebrate is an animal lacking a vertebral column.))) >>>>> ** (((== Vertebrates == >>>>> >>>>> Vertebrates are members of the subphylum Vertebrata, chordates with >>>>> backbones or spinal columns.))) >>>>> ---------->8---------- >>>>> >>>>> I have to be able to insert new lines inside a list item using the >>>>> Enter >>>>> key but without creating a new list item. Let's consider the >>>>> following >>>>> state: >>>>> >>>>> ----------8<---------- >>>>> * (((= Plants =))) >>>>> ---------->8---------- >>>>> >>>>> We have a level 1 heading inside a list item. The caret is inside >>>>> the >>>>> heading, at the end. Pressing Enter can have the following three >>>>> outcomes: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Continue editing in the heading, but on a new line: >>>>> >>>>> ----------8<---------- >>>>> * (((= Title 1 >>>>> x =))) >>>>> ---------->8---------- >>>>> >>>>> 2. Continue editing in the same list item but after the heading, >>>>> in a >>>>> paragraph: >>>>> >>>>> ----------8<---------- >>>>> * (((= Title 1 = >>>>> >>>>> x))) >>>>> ---------->8---------- >>>>> >>>>> 3. Create a new list item: >>>>> >>>>> ----------8<---------- >>>>> * (((= Title 1 =))) >>>>> * x >>>>> ---------->8---------- >>>>> >>>>> For the first outcome I think we all agree that the user has to >>>>> press >>>>> Shift+Enter. For the second and third outcomes I see two options: >>>>> >>>>> A) Enter for 2 and CTRL/META+Enter for 3 >>>>> B) Enter for 3 and CTRL/META+Enter for 2 >>>>> (if you see any other options please step up) >>>> I don't think we need META. >>>> I'd go with the simplest: >>>> * when inside a group, use the normal enter behavior for the >>>> underlying element. If you're in a header then enter create a new >>>> paragraph, etc) >>>> * you need to position the cursor after the group in the list item >>>> and >>>> press enter to get a new list item >>> The problem is that the list item wraps the group and there's no >>> (easy) >>> way to place the caret after the group but in the list item. >> That's why I suggested a visual way to identify the group so it's easy >> to see if the caret is inside or outside the group (ie. before the </ >> div> or after). >> >>> In fact the >>> WYSIWYG editor is not aware of a group: it simply sees a list item >>> with >>> content inside. But since the caret is inside a heading the Enter >>> key is >>> treated accordingly, even if the heading is inside a list item. That's >>> why I think we need a META+Enter to be able to get out of the list >>> item. >>> >>>> Note: another solution could allow to get out of the group by >>>> pressing >>>> tab but we said we wanted to keep the standard browser tab behavior. >>> I don't see how we could use the Tab key. >> It would have the same effect as your META+Enter and would go to the >> next list item for example. But again since we don't want to us Tab >> it's moot. >> >>>> If we really want to introduce a new META+Enter then I'd definitely >>>> vote +1 for A). >>>> >>>> BTW how are groups represented visually in the editor? Maybe this is >>>> the real problem? >>> Groups are not represented visually in a special way. As I said, the >>> editor is not aware of them right now. I don't see how drawing a >>> border >>> around the group would help (through CSS). Also, in this case the >>> XWiki >>> 2.0 syntax user is forced to use the group notation in order to add >>> complex content inside a list item because there's no other means of >>> doing this so I don't think he would expect to see a border around the >>> content in the WYSIWYG editor. >> I don't agree. For your description above of the different uses case >> you *do* want to differentiate where you're inside a group or not >> since the behaviors are not the same. So it makes sense to me to have >> some visual clue of a group so that the user knows what behavior he'll >> get. > > > Well, there is no representation of a group per se in the WYSIWYG (you don't > have a visual clue as to whether the caret is **here|** or **here**| ) and > since you don't know where you are you can't get the caret in / out of the > group using the left / right arrow keys. > > I'm not aware of any WYSIWYG editor that has such a way of displaying where > exactly the caret is in relation to groups (either in desktop or web WYSIWYG > editors). Additionally, I'm not sure we want to go into this direction since > it poses numerous UI & technical issues.
I fully agree with you Guillaume on this. > > I've tested the behavior of OpenOffice Writer and it's the following: when a > list item is also a heading, hitting enter when the caret is at the end of > the line gets the caret out of the list and creates a new paragraph. In > DekiWiki, hitting enter when the caret is at the end of the heading item > creates a new list item. > > As I pointed it out in the JIRA comment, the most common behavior will be > for users to expect a new list item to be created when they hit the enter > key, whatever the content located in the list item. If we implement A) , > users will have no clue about what they need to do to get out of the list if > they put a heading in a list since they won't know about CTRL/META + ENTER. > Choosing A) would result in making the most intuitive / most used option > hard to reach. I really don't think that's what we want. > > Thus I'm strongly in favor of B) Enter for 3 and CTRL/META+Enter for 2 B) is fine for me, although I prefer A). I'd like to see more votes before implementing one of them. Thanks, Marius > > Guillaume > > >> Thanks >> -Vincent >> >>> Thanks, >>> Marius >>> >>>> Thanks >>>> -Vincent >>>> >>>>> I'm +1 for A) for the following reason: if the user has inserted a >>>>> heading in a list item then he will surely want to add more content >>>>> after that heading, thus pressing just Enter is the natural way of >>>>> doing >>>>> this. From a technical POV the caret is first inside a heading and >>>>> then >>>>> inside a list item so the heading should have the priority of >>>>> handling >>>>> the Enter key. >>>>> >>>>> NOTE: Choosing A) or B) doesn't affect the way simple lists are >>>>> created, >>>>> which is using just Enter. >>>>> >>>>> Please cast your votes and sorry for the long mail, >>>>> Marius >> _______________________________________________ >> users mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users >> > > > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
