On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Anca Luca <[email protected]> wrote: > I On 04/06/2012 09:35 AM, Vincent Massol wrote: >> >> Hi Sergiu, >> >> Note that below I'm going to play the devil's advocate since I think it's >> important we really think hard before changing anything and verify if our >> current implementation is not enough. >> >> See below. >> >> On Apr 5, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote: >> >>> On 04/05/2012 12:51 PM, Anca Luca wrote: >>>> >>>> On 04/05/2012 06:42 PM, Vincent Massol wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Sergiu, >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 5, 2012, at 5:55 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi devs, >>>>>> >>>>>> Currently, requesting a component instance without a hint will look >>>>>> for the implementation that uses the "default" hint, which makes it >>>>>> difficult to change the implementation in an XWiki instance. Sure, it >>>>>> is easy as long as all the implementations use the "default" hint, >>>>>> but choosing the default between alternative implementations that >>>>>> should all still be usable by themselves is not possible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, "default" is not really a good hint, since it describes the >>>>>> state of the implementation, not the technology, the aspect that >>>>>> makes it different from the others. It would be better to name each >>>>>> implementation with a proper hint. >>>>>> >>>>>> I propose to define a mapping that can specify which hint is the >>>>>> default for a component. In a text file, >>>>>> META-INF/component-defaults.txt, we'll keep >>>>>> componentinterface=defaulthint mappings. For example: >>>>>> >>>>>> com.xpn.xwiki.store.XWikiStoreInterface=hibernate >>>>>> com.xpn.xwiki.store.migration.DataMigrationManager=hibernate >>>>>> >>>>>> And then, when we lookup the current storage implementation, we don't >>>>>> need to check what is the configured hint in xwiki.cfg (or >>>>>> xwiki.properties), we can just request the default implementation. >>>>>> >>>>>> If there's no mapping for a component, we'll continue to use the >>>>>> "default" hint. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not sure where exactly to keep such files. We bundle a >>>>>> components.txt file in each jar containing component implementations. >>>>>> We could do the same for the components we consider the platform >>>>>> defaults, and allow overrides in the >>>>>> WEB-INF/classes/META-INF/component-defaults.txt file. Still, this >>>>>> means that whenever platform defaults change, we need to keep another >>>>>> special section in the release notes, to let users know about these >>>>>> changes, so that they can manually revert to the old default if they >>>>>> need to. >>>>>> >>>>>> In the future we could change existing components to give proper >>>>>> hints instead of "default", where such a change is applicable. >>>>>> >>>>>> Another idea is to not use "default" at all, and instead go for a >>>>>> generic "xwiki", "xe", "xwiki-platform" or something like that >>>>>> whenever there's just one implementation for a component and we can't >>>>>> find another hint to describe it. >>>>>> >>>>>> WDYT? >>>>> >>>>> This is not really how it's been designed ATM. Whenever you wish to >>>>> use a different implementation of a component you use a component >>>>> implementation with the same role and same hint. You then make it >>>>> available in your classpath. (Of course you can also do this at >>>>> runtime simply by registering a new implementation over the old one). >>>>> >>>>> To decide which implementation is used you use a priority order, as >>>>> described on: >>>>> >>>>> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Component+Module#HOverrides >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'd be curious to know your exact use case and understand why the >>>>> current mechanism doesn't work for it. >>> >>> "...choosing the default between alternative implementations that should >>> all **still be usable by themselves** is not possible" >>> >>> The overrides mechanism allows to change which component will be returned >>> for the "default" hint, but all the others will be invisible. >>> >>>> One usecase I see is that you have multiple implementations and you want >>>> to change the default one for a specific running instance of xwiki. >>>> >>>> Overwrite mechanism only allows you to say which impl should be used >>>> from the _components with the same hint_. However, you cannot change the >>>> hint of a component at configuration time, so if you have a standard >>>> distr of xwiki and you want to use ldap authentication, let's say (if >>>> only auth was impl with components), unless you do some java to add the >>>> default hint to the ldap implementation and then to specify that this >>>> one has priority over all the default ones, I don't see how you can >>>> re-wire the default. >>> >>> Exactly. For most of the "services" the XWiki platform currently has >>> (storage, cache), we don't have a "default" implementation, but we rely on a >>> kind of factory to lookup the configured default. That is an actual factory >>> class in the case of the cache service, but just more code in the old >>> XWiki.java class for the storage initialization. >> >> Yep that's how it works. >> >>> A standard way of selecting the default means that we'll need less >>> factories, and less code is always a good thing. >> >> Yes but it has more limitation to what we have since with a proper Factory >> you can imagine all kind of logic to decide which implementation to use >> (hour of the day, whether the user is a premium user or not, etc). >> >> BTW we do support Providers and the goal of the Provider is to be a >> factory for a given Role. So from now on, there should be no need to >> implement a Factory proper. Implementing a Provider is the new best practice >> for this. >> >>> Now, suppose one of the older components that had only one >>> implementation, "default", gets alternative implementations, and we want to >>> be able to allow more than one to be active in a wiki, and let the >>> administrator decide which one should be considered the default. How can we >>> approach this? The only way is indeed to have multiple hints, but last time >>> I checked this resulted in more than one instance, even for @Singleton >>> implementations. >> >> Correct, ATM we support only one hint per implementation. > >
> ? I think Marius needed that for some wysiwyg stuff and we actually support > multiple hints per implementation. It's just gonna give you a new instance > for each hint, which in my view is a bug, not a missing feature. https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-platform/blob/master/xwiki-platform-core/xwiki-platform-wysiwyg/xwiki-platform-wysiwyg-server/src/main/java/org/xwiki/wysiwyg/server/internal/filter/http/MutableHttpServletRequestFactory.java but it's the old way to specify the hint. I don't think you can put two @Named or a list of names as the value of @Named. Thanks, Marius > > >> >>> Another approach is to deprecate the direct dependency declaration and >>> instead introduce a factory that is responsible for selecting the default, >>> but this breaks backwards compatibility. >> >> Not completely true. Imagine you have (Role, "default") as your current >> component and you wish to be able to choose various implementation from now >> on. What you could do is this: >> >> * Write a new component, a Factory, that overrides the current component, >> i.e. by using the same (Role, "default"). This factory will then delegate to >> whatever other implementation it wishes. > > > That's only possible if the public API of the CM allows you to grab > overriden components (non-default defaults :) ) > > >> >> From the user of (Role, "default")'s POV he won't see a single change. >> >>> The "I don't care, just give me the default" strategy works as long as >>> the component implementation is self-contained and doesn't involve data >>> communication. Let's take an example, PDF export. >>> >>> Currently the PDF export is only possible via FOP. If we were to convert >>> the current interface + implementation class into a proper component, we'd >>> name it "default", since it's the only one and who needs a factory for only >>> one implementation. >> >> Yes but we could also be thorough and instead implement a >> Provider<PDFExporter> instead. >> >>> People use it and they're happy because it just works. But we might soon >>> add support for export via an office server. Suppose we want either FOP or >>> Office to be usable as the default PDF export implementation. And suppose >>> we'll want to keep both types of export active, so that we can use either >>> one as the implementation for the default export of documents, the FOP >>> implementation for exporting some kinds of documents like scientific >>> articles, and the office connector for generating PDFs for presentations. >>> Using the overrides mechanism we can only have one active at the same time, >>> unless we introduce yet another factory which we can bypass using manual >>> component lookup. >> >> Based on your use case you'll need a UI to ask the user what he wants to >> export, i.e. either a "scientific article" or a "presentation" and from his >> choice you'll pick the right implementation. You could also try to guess >> that dynamically by looking at what is being exported but that'll require a >> Factory to hold that logic. >> >> I know what you mean though: for some reason you don't want that to be >> dynamic and you wish it to be static. >> >> There's a problem with dynamicity though. Imagine an extension that wants >> to replace an implementation. With your proposal the best practice would be >> to introduce a new Hint since the "default" is chosen statically at >> configuration time. So that wouldn't work. After you install extensions >> you'd need to stop the wiki, change the binding to the new implementation >> from the extension and restart it. Of course you'd need to read the >> documentation of the extension to know you have to use it in replacement. >> Basically it would mean that extensions cannot override behaviors. They >> would just be able to add new components (like new Macros) but not modify >> behaviors at runtime. > > > But this only means we need to be able to change configuration without > stopping the wiki and make it reload configs (might prove useful for other > things as well), it doesn't mean we cannot do it "static". > > >> >>> If at some point we decide that the office implementation works better, >>> we might consider changing the default implementation for the pdf component. >>> This means that we'll change the hint of the FOP implementation from >>> "default" to "fop", change the hint of the Office implementation from >>> "office" to "default", and our new version of XE works great if people read >>> the installation guide and properly configure the office connector. >> >> In practice we would have 2 choices with our current component impl.: >> >> Choice 1: >> * Add 2 new implementations with hint1 and hint2 (hint1 being what was >> "default" before) >> * Keep the implementation with "default" hint but deprecate it and move it >> to legacy. Refactor it so that it delegates yo hint1 >> * Add a Provider to decide which impl to use based on whatever conditions >> we want >> >> Choice 2: >> * Move "default" impl to "hint1" >> * Add "hint2" >> * Change "default" implementation to be a Composite that delegates to >> hint1 or hint2 >> >>> But what about those that want to upgrade, but are happy with the older >>> FOP implementation and don't want to add support for the office connector? >> >> Yes, in this case this is transparent for them (and it's a good thing in >> most caes!). This means they get autoupgrade to something better. > > > No, it means that for some reason we decided to change the underlying > technology (e.g. change of licence), it doesn't mean that everybody is happy > with the change. > >> >>> They'll have to use patched versions of the two component implementations >>> where their hints are reverted back to the old values. Easy? No. And even >>> though "default" means "I don't care what the implementation does" >> >> It doesn't really mean this. We use "default" only when there's a single >> implementation. When there are more than 1 each one has a hint that is a >> qualifier to the implementation since there's no reason one is more default >> than the other. >> >>> , here it does matter a lot which implementation you're using. They have >>> different requirements, and it's important to know if the implementation >>> will require an office instance or not. >>> >>> Saying that this won't happen since we're all really careful when >>> designing our components is wishful thinking. We've refactored other more >>> critical pieces of code than providing alternative implementations for a >>> component, so we will find ourselves in situations where we'll have to >>> switch from only one "default" implementation to several. >> >> I agree that we've refactored. And it has worked so far right? ;) >> >>> Designing our component manager to make it easy to transition is the >>> right thing to do. >>> >>> Still, my major problem is not about overrides, but about the semantics >>> of "default" (or lack of it). This says nothing about the actual mechanisms >>> behind the implementation, it just reflects the state of that particular >>> component implementation: it's the default at the moment. Not caring what >>> the implementation actually does works only when there is indeed just one >>> possible implementation that is straight-forward. But in most cases, we do >>> rely on another library that does the work for us, and libraries die, better >>> alternatives come along, and changing that internal aspect of the >>> implementation will sometimes be backwards incompatible, or have a different >>> behavior. Sure, it does the same job, but it does it so differently that >>> some will prefer to use the other approach. We have to let users decide >>> which is their "default", and having multiple implementations with the >>> "default" hint but different priorities is not very intuitive. Why not make >>> everything default and remove hints completely if we don't really put any >>> meaning into the hint? > > > This also means that we should only have components where there is a chance > that another implementation might exist, because to the limit you can > separate the interface from the implementation for any little piece of code > that you write. > > I sort of feel you for this default thing, but at the same time, it's also a > matter of education of the developer, which needs to make sure that they put > a technology hint to the component, besides the default hint. The pb is > that, as long as there is only one implementation, regardless of the > technology it's based on, you also need to put the default hint since > otherwise you'll have to hardcode the reference to the technology everywhere > if you wanna use that service. so in this case default would mean 'this is > the one that should be used because there's no other, you dumb CM that is > not capable of seeing that'. > > This brings back some memories, but I don't know from what, about a system > that was giving the available implementation regardless of its name. For > example, we could make the CM return the only implementation, if only one > exists, when asking for a component, regardless of its hint, so we don't > have to put default everywhere. But then we need a strategy for the case > when there are more. > > >>> >>> And "default" adds another assumption: XWiki Enterprise is the ultimate >>> target. Our defaults are the only ones that matter. As an example, all the >>> *Configuration components have just one "default" implementation, which >>> relies on xwiki.properties, XWiki.XWikiPreferences etc. Doesn't that tie the >>> platform to the XWiki Enterprise wiki? >> >> This not true in xwiki commons and rendering because I've made sure that >> we could use them outside of the XWiki Platform. They have default >> implementation that don't use XWiki Configuration module. >> >>> It's not a direct dependency visible at compilation time, it's worse, and >>> invisible assumption about the final runtime. It's certainly not the default >>> for other types of users that want to embed xwiki-commons or xwiki-platform >>> components in a different type of end product. To me this isn't the default >>> configuration, this is the default configuration used by XWiki Enterprise, >>> thus my proposal of using something else as the generic component hint >>> instead of "default". >> >> Ok thanks for the explanations. I understand better now what you mean. >> >> Actually what you suggest could already be implemented using a best >> practice of always using Providers when you want a Component injected. In >> this manner by default you'll get the Generic Provider but anyone could >> implement a specific Provider implementation for it that would choose >> between various implementation based on whatever (a value in a >> META-INF/role-bindings.txt file, data from DB, etc). >> >> <side note>Only issue with having Providers everywhere is that you get >> late verification of your system coherence since dependencies will be >> resolved only when they're used. OTOH this is a necessity in a fully-dynamic >> system ;)</side note> >> >> Also, the notion of default doesn't always have a meaning. There are lots >> of cases when there are NO default. For example Macros or Transformations >> or… >> >> Let's continue the discussion it's interesting :) >> >> I'd like to review a bit the other Component system out there again to see >> what they do for this. It's important that they have support for this since >> we want to be able to switch to them one day. The 3 that I would review are: >> * Guice >> * CDI >> * OSGi > > > yes, we should learn from others. Maybe even use one? > > Thanks, > Anca > > >> >> Thanks >> -Vincent >> >> _______________________________________________ >> devs mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
