On Jan 20, 2013, at 6:54 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 01/20/2013 11:31 AM, Vincent Massol wrote: >> >> On Jan 20, 2013, at 5:22 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi devs, >>> >>> For content pages, the bottom tabs (comments, attachments, history, >>> information) are very useful features. But does it make sense to keep >>> those active for very technical pages? >>> >>> For example, when viewing details about a tag, (Main/Tags?do=viewTag), >>> why should people be allowed to comment? They might wrongly think that >>> they're commenting on a tag, but that's just one complex page that >>> handles almost everything about tags, so a comment like "this tag has a >>> typo" doesn't help at all. >>> >>> Other pages should have no bottom tabs as well: user directory, blog >>> category management, the whole scheduler space, share by email... >>> >>> While the homepage is a technical page (by default), it does make sense >>> to leave the comments active, since it's the entry point for every user >>> (although I think that the messaging system is a better way to send >>> global messages). >>> >>> >>> IMO, the advantage is that we're hiding actions that are rarely useful, >>> but could be misused. The disadvantage is that we're breaking the >>> universality of the UI. >>> >>> I'm +1 for hiding, fewer mis-usable features is always better. >> >> What if admins want to leave comments on a tech page modified by another >> admin to ask some question for example? > > Sending a message to another admin should be done by... sending a > message, not by commenting. A direct message will reach a user faster > than hoping that the target user will stumble upon the page and read the > comment. If you're saying that comments are useless then we should remove comments… :) >> Said differently, shouldn't bottom tabs (comments, attachments, etc) be >> visible to admins for example? This could be achieved by only giving view >> rights to non admins by default on tech pages. > > Tech pages aren't supposed to be viewed only by admins. They're useful > pages for every user, so they should be visible (view tag cloud, view > documents tagged with a specific tag, view the list of users, browse > blog categories...). And not having view right doesn't mean that the > bottom tabs will be hidden. Just the "add comment", "add attachment" > actions will be unavailable. ok my bad, I meant edit/comment rights, not view rights. > And even if adding is disabled, but why should this information be > visible to any user at all? Forbidding edit still means that a user > wanting to see which pages are tagged with "needsreview" will see a "Hey > John, could we have an undo to tag renaming?" comment. What would you > think if you saw that? Again if your point is that comments are useless then we should remove comments. I think there's a place for comments but it seems your discussion is actually asking us to define more precisely what is the use case/need for comments. Also I think there's a difference between a Tag Dashboard page which is a technical page but for end users and a technical page not for end users (i.e. hidden page). Both will need different solutions I think. So this proposal should address both needs. >> Another use case: imagine I'm an admin and I want to modify a tech page and >> I'd like to add an attachment to that page… IMO bottom tabs are still useful >> for admins on tech pages. > > This isn't about disabling attachments and comments. The bottom tabs are > almost an _invitation_ to do stuff. Without them, it is still possible > to go to the attachments page by clicking on the "Attachments (0)" link > below the title. De-contextualizing these actions will reduce the risk > of associating a comment/attachment with a particular view of the > scripted page. If the bottom tabs are removed then those links will also need to be removed obviously since otherwise a user can click on them... >> IMO the issue is different. If a tech is not supposed to be modified by the >> user then users should have only view rights on the page and NOT edit >> rights. This will solve this issue. > > It's not just about changing, but also about what's visible on the > screen, and the usefulness of such information vs. the number of WTFs > generated. I don't see any WTF. For me any page that is a end user visible page can have comments without any WTF. For example on the tag dashboard page, someone may comment and say "how do I get the tag dashboard to display xxx?" or anything else in just the same way it's done on any other page. In addition I'm actually finding the removal of the bottom tab a huge WTF. As a user I know what a page is, and if I see those tabs are not present on some pages, I'll think "what???? WTF? Why is there not tabs there…. > Forget about admins, they will still be able to add comments > and attachments. Think about simple users searching for stuff and seeing > a comment completely unrelated to what they're searching for. > > I forgot to say that this has already been done in a few places, and > nobody complained about the missing things: > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Tags > http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Search > http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Invitation/ It's not because it's been done that it's an accepted strategy/decision. I've seen those and I've always been uneasy about them and they've been done without any strategy whatsoever… All I'm saying is that we need this discussion because we need to know 1) if we want to remove bottom tabs 2) and if so, on which pages. ATM it's not clear for me at all. Thanks -Vincent >> WDYT? >> >> Thanks >> -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
