Hi, I'm not (yet ;)) a XWiki developper but concerning this issue with windows, I'd like to propose an other way of adressing it.
Several developpers in my company work on windows + eclipse and encounter the same issue with bonita engine. They found a solution by closing all projects they don't work on, using the corresponding packages from a maven repository. It seems a bit painful at the beginning but with good practices, it's ok (by the way, working with eclipse with all projects open should not be simple). As far as I remember, when I was working on windows and idea, I never had the issue. Do you know if the issue is only with eclipse or append also when using maven in command line or using an other IDE ? Back to the main idea, instead of doing this huge refactoring which will impact all XWIki developpers, the alternative may be for one guy to try developping on windows with different IDEs and then provide a way of working on each environment. The cost of such work may be a few hours to find a solution and write some guidelines/good practices. The result for new developpers would be more or less as learning new coding rules. WDYT ? 2013/5/16 Vincent Massol <[email protected]> > > On May 16, 2013, at 6:09 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On May 16, 2013, at 5:29 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> On 05/16/2013 10:54 AM, Vincent Massol wrote: > >>> > >>> On May 16, 2013, at 4:47 PM, Thomas Mortagne < > [email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>>>> I'm rather -0 ATM and very close to -1 because: > >>>>> > >>>>> 1) I haven't heard from a windows dev for a long time, I don't think > that happens that often > >>>> > >>>> And it's surely not going to improve... > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> 2) It's a *huge* change and it should definitely not be done > lightly. We would need to plan a period like 2 full days, all devs would > need to stop working on what they do and help out. For example all pages on > xwiki.org having some github links are going to be broken and will need > to be updated (that's probably around hunded of pages overall) > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> Yes it's a huge change, that's why it's a vote. > >>>> > >>>>> 3) Windows devs have a simple solution which is to use cygwin so > it's not a blocker > >>>> > >>>> It's not as trivial as you seems to think and it also mean that you > >>>> simply can't use the standard git tools in the Windows world like the > >>>> Github application or Tortoisegit without speaking or any EDI git > >>>> integration... so not it really can't be seen as some obvious > >>>> solution. And it's not like using Cygwin was some king of standard for > >>>> Windows dev. "use cyggwin" is easy to say but the reality is that a > >>>> dev will try to clone XWiki repository with the git tool he is used to > >>>> and will simply can't, period. > >>> > >>> What I'm saying is that I don't think it's worth the effort. By worth > I mean the ratio between the effort and problems it'll require from us vs > the # of windows dev not using cygwin that'll want to develop for the xwiki > project… > >> > >> But this is why we have a democracy and not a dictatorship. If the > >> community considers it is worth the effort, and at least some devs are > >> willing to work on this, then I think it's their right to do this. > > > > 1) You should re-read the governance. It's a meritocracy, i.e we vote > important changes and devs need to be ok. So if one or a few devs want to > do this but some other don't for some valid reason then it's not going to > happen until we reach a decision. > > > > 2) It's all the devs that will bear the cost of maintaining the new > environment, no just the dev who's willing to do the initial work. > > > > BTW none of us work on a windows environment and I think it's a bad idea > to implement support for something that we never use. It can only lead to > something that gets broken frequently. To overcome this we'd need some > windows agent and this means supporting that agent and making sure it works > all the time (we tried in the past and failed for a very simple reason: > none of the devs use windows and thus we don't care). > > > >> It's not a good move to veto the will of the community. > > > > Again (in case you didn't understand) I'm ok on the principle of doing > this move but doing cowboy-coding without thinking about the consequences > and letting other fix your stuff by only doing half of the work isn't my > preferred style… > > > > We've had enough bad examples of the dev environment being broken for > week(s not so long ago that it's normal to want to be careful... > > > >> Anyway, there are other reasons to make the change, not just Windows > >> compatibility. It saves about 2 seconds each time a dev wants to go to a > >> directory from the command line. Going into one subdirectory means > >> having to press "x tab <right prefix of the submodule> tab". The first > >> two keys are superfluous since they're the same all the time. The deeper > >> the hierarchy, the longer the time it takes to go there. It adds up to > >> more than an hour wasted per year per dev, and I don't think it will > >> really take a whole month of every dev to do the migration. If everybody > >> contributes and we do a systematic effort, it could be done in an hour > >> with the right planning. > > > > So to reiterate and to be constructive, before we start any actual work > on this I'd like that we do more evaluation. This means: > > * see a list of windows coders who have expressed a need (apart from > Florin who I know already) and who have a real will to participate after > the move. Do we have at least one? > > * that we list what needs to be done precisely. I've identified some so > far: > > ** the git path changes > > ** modify all the xwiki.org pages linking to code > > ** git history, will we loose ability to see history of files? > > ** others? > > ** what happens to the JIRA links to commits in the Commits tab? Will they > still work? > > Thanks > -Vincent > > > * to list who is ok to participate actively in the move > > * that we agree on a date so that it doesn't impact our planned roadmap > > > > Thanks > > -Vincent > > > >>> We're going to loose at least a month before we've finished that > migration completely and I'm really worried about the toll it'll have on > our releases... > >>> > >>> Thanks > >>> -Vincent > >>> > >>> PS: With the same group effort we could release a first version of the > new model for example ;) > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> Sergiu Dumitriu > > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > -- Frédéric Bouquet Twitter/Github : bouquetf http://www.espacedefouille.org/ _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
