Hi, Vincent, my preference goes to C: adding a page to set theses rights.
Anyone has something to add before I start to work on it? Regards, Louis-Marie 2013/8/26 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[email protected]> > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Hi Guillaume, > > > > On Aug 26, 2013, at 12:30 PM, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hi developers! > > > > > > I'm back from holidays. I have read all your messages this morning, and > > > this is what I propose for the next 2 weeks (until M2): > > > > > > (it is based on the proposal D from Caty: > > > > > > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovements#HOptionD > > ) > > > > > > * We use the term 'subwiki' instead of 'wiki'. > > > > I'm not very sure of this. Although is very logical, it will produce lots > of problems with the documentation and also with our way of referring to > wikis. In theory I agree with it, I'm just worried :) I prefer 'wiki' > instead of 'subwiki' and 'home' instead of 'wiki'. Although we are > simplifying by removing workspace notion, we add another layer of confusion > between subwikis vs. wikis. > > > > > * We add an option in the subwiki creation ui called 'users isolation', > > > that enable local users for the new subwiki. > > > * We add a new right called 'subwiki creation right'. > > > * We add a new right called 'users isolation rights', which enable or > not > > > if the user has the right to use the 'users isolation' option while he > is > > > creating a new subwiki. > > > > When I proposed D, 'users isolation' was the first thing that came to mind, > but I guess can be confusing. I tried to read your proposal and every time > I read 'User isolation right' I transformed it to 'Local users creation > right', so maybe that's a better name and is on the same direction with the > other one: > * subwiki - creation right > * local users - creation right > > 'Users isolation' can still be used as a label in the creation step. And > having it just as a label will be also much more easy to rename it than > adding it as a right name in our core. > > Regarding the 'creation right' suffix, should we replace it with 'manage > right'? > I mean right now we don't have a very fined grained palette of rights, but > maybe in the future we will want to have 'create comment', 'edit comment', > 'delete comment' rights. This mean we could also have something like > 'create subwiki' and 'delete subwiki'. The 'subwiki manage right' would > imply 'create+edit+delete'. I'm not sure if the namings are good, but since > we are starting to add new rights, maybe we should define a naming standard > for them. > > > > > * We drop the notion of 'workspaces' and 'farm', since you can have the > > > same behaviour with the good set of settings. > > > > > > Now, I quote Guillaume Lerouge who has explained several use cases, and > > > I'll say how to handle it with this proposal: > > > > > > 1. *Large organization where various groups want to have independent > > wikis > > > for their knowledge bases:* no local users, wiki creation restricted to > > > admins to avoid duplication of KBs > > > --> SOLUTION: 'subwiki creation right' only given to admins, 'user > > > isolation rights' given to nobody. > > > > > > 2. *"Pure" wiki farm as on myxwiki.org:* you only want admins to be > > able to > > > create new wikis to prevent spam. Each wiki has its local users. > > > --> SOLUTION: 'subwiki creation right' only given to admins, 'user > > > isolation rights' given to admin too. Each time a new subwiki is > created, > > > the admin select the option 'users isolation'. > > > > > > 3. *Large organization where people want to work on projects with > > > sub-contractors (some wikis act as an extranet):* local users allowed, > > > anyone can create a wiki > > > --> SOLUTION: 'subwiki creation right' given to all users, 'user > > isolation > > > rights' given to all users. > > > > > > 4. *Company where people want to work on internal projects:* local > users > > > not allowed, anyone can create a wiki > > > --> SOLUTION: 'subwiki creation right' given to all users, 'user > > isolation > > > rights' given to nobody. > > > > > > As you can see, all the well-knowned use cases are handled by my > > proposal. > > > I would like to to say if you agree with it. We only have 2 weeks to > > > achieve this, and I work only 4 days a week. > > > > > > WDYT? > > > > I'm +1 to this proposal, with the 'wiki' and 'local users creation right' > rename observations > > > > > > All sounds good to me, it covers all use cases I know too. > > > > Just a minor detail: when you say above "given to all users", this can be > > replaced by "given to users of a specific group" in some cases. > > > > The only issue I can see is the addition of 2 new rights in the current > > Rights UI for 5.2 final. How do you envision this? > > > > I guess there are 4 quick solutions (that do not entail a full Rights UI > > rewrite): > > A - allow horizontal scrolling to see all rights. While this is not > > perfect from a UI POV at least it allows us to progress and improve the > > Rights UI in the near future. > > B - modify a bit the Rights UI but without a full rewrite (for example by > > putting the rights in a select box and the users selects the right to > > display). Again this would be a quick fix while waiting for the full > Rights > > UI rewrite. > > C - add a SubWiki Admin section in the Admin page and put those 2 new > > rights in there FTM. When we do the Rights UI rewrite, we can then move > > them there (or not). > > D - have 2 special pages with a Rights Object attached to them to > > represent the who's allowed to add a subwiki and use users isolation and > > have the subwiki creation wizard use thoses pages. This would be while > > waiting for the new Rights UI rewrite and/or the addition of those 2 new > > rights. > > > > My preference goes to either A, C or D. I think C might be the best one > > even on the longer term since it clearly creates a section proper for > > subwiki administration. > > > > WDYT? > > > > My preference goes to A or C. My first reaction was clearly A, but then > I've seen what long names the new rights have :) We surely need to remake > the Rights UI, but this is not a priority this release. > I will go with option C because the 2 new rights are related mostly to the > main wiki, will be changed by a very selected hand of people (so they are > not 'global interest' rights, so doesn't make sense to affect all the > rights tables) and I think is much more easy to implement this way (by > adding a new Administration category). The downside is that we split > related functionality. The new Rights UI need to consider the scalability > aspect. > > Thanks, > Caty > > > > > > Thanks > > -Vincent > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Louis-Marie > > > > > > > > > > > > 2013/8/2 Jean Coury <[email protected]> > > > > > >> Hello, > > >> > > >> Firstly I couldn't read everything because there is a lot of off > topics > > so > > >> forgive me if some of the following should not be here. If you have no > > time > > >> go the last line directly. > > >> > > >> I've been struggling with client with all those terms wich look like > the > > >> same (e.g. Main wiki, sub-wiki and then Workspace, Space) and the fact > > that > > >> Workspace have "Work" into it and so is not really friendly to the > > client's > > >> users. My first proposal would have been "Portal > Wiki > Space > > Page" > > in > > >> order to keep the basics and to find an easy way to describe the main > > wiki. > > >> Then I read multiple threads and have a look to the competitors and > > >> find-out that Home as a first term would be great and less technical > > than > > >> Portal. Moreover Portal is full of connotations and do not show the > > >> possibility to customize it. > > >> > > >> "There is no place like Home" don't you think? > > >> Proposal : Home > Wiki > Space > Page > > >> > > >> Then I looked at the proposal made by Cathy on > > >> > > >> > > > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovements > > >> I would have picked B but I strongly dislike the fact that the product > > can > > >> be two things at a time and so* > > >> => I vote for* *D*. > > >> > > >> Regards, > > >> > > >> > > >> 2013/8/1 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau <[email protected]> > > >> > > >>> I vote for D (not B anymore). > > >>> > > >>> 2013/8/1 Guillaume Lerouge <[email protected]> > > >>> > > >>>> Hi, > > >>>> > > >>>> I like this option. Waiting for further agreement on the sister > thread > > >>>> about workspaces, I think this is a good solution for XE 5.2. > > >>>> > > >>>> The downside is that we lose a bit of simplicity, but it's a tough > > >> topic. > > >>>> > > >>>> Guillaume > > >>>> > > >>>> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > >>>> [email protected]> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Vincent Massol < > [email protected]> > > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:26 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> > > >>>> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Hi Caty, > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> See below. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> On Jul 30, 2013, at 1:10 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Vincent Massol < > > >>>> [email protected]> > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2013, at 10:16 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu < > > >> [email protected]> > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> On 07/20/2013 07:33 AM, Vincent Massol wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>> Hi devs, > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> In the Roadmap proposal I've sent for XWiki 5.2 some days > > >> ago, > > >>>>>> there's > > >>>>>>>>> this time: > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> " > > >>>>>>>>>>> * Have Workspace by default in XE + improved home page - > > >> Caty + > > >>>>>>>>> Guillaume Delhumeau. FTR Guillaume is not a committer yet but > > >>> he's > > >>>>>> going to > > >>>>>>>>> work full time on XWiki development and especially on UI > > >> aspects > > >>>> from > > >>>>>> now > > >>>>>>>>> on. Welcome aboard Guillaume, we need you! :) > > >>>>>>>>>>> " > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Denis told me he didn't know about the proposal of having > > >>>>> Workspaces > > >>>>>>>>> integrated in the default XAR. Thus I'm sending this email to > > >>>> ensure > > >>>>>> we all > > >>>>>>>>> agree about this. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> The rationale is: > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> * It would be nice that when our users download XWiki > > >>> (standalone > > >>>>>>>>> version or install the default XAR) they get to see the power > > >> of > > >>>>>> XWiki. One > > >>>>>>>>> of the very important differentiator of XWiki vs other > > >>>>> wikis/solutions > > >>>>>> is > > >>>>>>>>> our multi-tenancy feature and most of people downloading and > > >>>>> installing > > >>>>>>>>> XWiki don't see it. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> * XEM/Wiki Manager are lacking polishing because the > > >> committers > > >>>>>> mostly > > >>>>>>>>> polish the default which doesn't include those. The UIs of > > >>> XEM/Wiki > > >>>>>> Manager > > >>>>>>>>> need polishing. Having them in default will ensure that we take > > >>>> them > > >>>>>> into > > >>>>>>>>> account and make them first class citizens when we develop. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Caty started working on the home page/UI improvements > > >> required > > >>> to > > >>>>>>>>> integrate this by default: > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/MultiWiki > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Here's my +1 > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> This is a major shift in how first-time users perceive XWiki. > > >>>>> Without > > >>>>>>>>>> multi-wiki features, it still looks like a wiki, but if the > > >>>> homepage > > >>>>>>>>>> changes from a "welcome to your wiki" page to a "here are your > > >>>>>>>>>> workspaces" portal, then suddenly XWiki "becomes" something > > >> else > > >>>> in > > >>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>>> eyes of our users. I used quotes since nothing changes on the > > >>>>> inside, > > >>>>>>>>>> the multiwiki feature has been there since the beginning, and > > >>> the > > >>>>>> single > > >>>>>>>>>> wiki mode can still be used. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> This isn't the plan as I mentioned in my previous emails. The > > >>> plan > > >>>> is > > >>>>>> that > > >>>>>>>>> the home page doesn't change. All that changes for a first time > > >>>> user > > >>>>>>>>> installing XWiki is that the Add menu will have more entries > > >> (Add > > >>>>>> Workspace > > >>>>>>>>> or Add Wiki or both, Caty is still working on the proposal). > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Proposals: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> * Changes to the Menu > > >>>>>>>> > > >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> * "Add menu". I think you forgot to update the 3rd screenshots > > >>> which > > >>>>> the > > >>>>>> colibri skin, right? > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> * "Home Menu". For 5.2 I don't think we should have the following > > >>>> since > > >>>>>> we don't have any UI for them: > > >>>>>>> ** Administration. I don't even know what it means at the global > > >>>>>> portal/system level > > >>>>>>> ** All documents. Currently we don't have a LT that displays all > > >>> docs > > >>>>>> from all wikis > > >>>>>>> ** Applications Index. I don't see what you would do in this one. > > >>>>>> Listing all apps for all wikis for quick navigation? Not sure it's > > >>>> needed > > >>>>>>> ** Note: Users index should list all global users > > >>>>>>> * I don't like very much "Home" as the menu name since that > > >>>> represents > > >>>>> a > > >>>>>> single wiki (the main wiki). We already have a menu entry to > > >>> represent > > >>>>> the > > >>>>>> current wiki. I'd prefer to have a "System" or "Portal" or "Farm" > > >> or > > >>> …, > > >>>>>> i.e. something that represents the whole system and have only > > >>>> system-wide > > >>>>>> actions in it. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> After more thoughts I think it's ok for a first version to have > the > > >>> new > > >>>>>> "Home" menu entry to represent the main wiki. However all subwikis > > >>> menu > > >>>>>> entries should have the same entries except for "Wiki Index" which > > >>>> should > > >>>>>> only be in "Home". > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> In the future though, in the new model, we'll have a notion of > > >> System > > >>>>>> (farm of wikis) and maybe we'll implement it differently than in a > > >>>> wiki. > > >>>>>> But we can take care of this at that time… ;) > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Right now the more important for me is to agree that we have only > 1 > > >>>>>> concept: the notion of "Wiki" and to replace the notion of > > >>> "Workspace" > > >>>>> just > > >>>>>> by a checkbox in the wiki creation wizard: > > >>>>>> "Allow creating local users" (which is unchecked by default). > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I've created the 'Option D' proposal > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovements#HOptionD > > >>>>> - used 'subwiki' term instead of 'wiki' > > >>>>> - used 'users isolation' checkbox to replace the notion of > workspace > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Thanks, > > >>>>> Caty > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Note that we'll also need in 5.3+ a new right IMO: the right of > > >>>> creating > > >>>>> a > > >>>>>> new wiki. For 5.2 we could just have a check in the wiki creation > > >>>> wizard > > >>>>>> page (for example on the user having Admin rights on the main > > >> wiki). > > >>> If > > >>>>> an > > >>>>>> Admin wants to change that to allow everyone to create a wiki he > > >>> could > > >>>>> edit > > >>>>>> that page and change the check. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> WDYT? > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Thanks > > >>>>>> -Vincent > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> * "Wiki Menu". Should be the same as now + Users Index for > > >> listing > > >>>> all > > >>>>>> local users of the current wiki + Application Index for all apps > of > > >>> the > > >>>>>> current wiki, i.e. all actions that you can do on the current wiki > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> * Wiki/Workspace Creation > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovements > > >>>>>>>> (please chose between Option A, B or C) > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Definitely +1 for B. I really think we need to drop the concept > > >> of > > >>>>>> workspaces and come back to the concept of wiki/subwiki. It's much > > >>>>> simpler > > >>>>>> for the user. What we call "workspace" can be seen as a > > >> configuration > > >>>>> for a > > >>>>>> wiki, i.e. the usage of global users only. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Thanks > > >>>>>>> -Vincent > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Thanks, > > >>>>>>>> Caty > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> But this change in how XWiki is perceived has both advantages > > >>> and > > >>>>>>>>>> disadvantages. On one hand, it clearly shows users that XWiki > > >>> is a > > >>>>>>>>>> collaborative platform, not just a wiki, so people that need > > >>>>>>>>>> collaboration more than just a wiki will be able to see that > > >>> XWiki > > >>>>>> isn't > > >>>>>>>>>> another boring wiki. On the other hand, people that are just > > >>>> looking > > >>>>>> for > > >>>>>>>>>> a wiki that's nice to use and "not-ugly", might be put off by > > >>> yet > > >>>>>>>>>> another layer of complexity, and might drop XWiki from their > > >>> list > > >>>> of > > >>>>>>>>>> candidates. In other words, it alienates even more the kind of > > >>>> users > > >>>>>>>>>> that already perceive XWiki as hard to use and overly complex. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> So, are we willing to trade one type of users for the other? > > >> It > > >>>>> would > > >>>>>> be > > >>>>>>>>>> in line with our vision of "enterprise collaboration", but I > > >>> still > > >>>>>> think > > >>>>>>>>>> we shouldn't voluntarily alienate any kind of users. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> An alternative is to wait for a real flavor, and then ask in > > >> the > > >>>>> first > > >>>>>>>>>> step of the distribution manager what kind of usage do we > > >> want. > > >>> In > > >>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>>> meantime, we can still polish the pages that will go in the > > >>>>>> "workspaces" > > >>>>>>>>>> flavor. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> So, -0 for switching to "workspaces only" in 5.2, unless we > > >> have > > >>>>>> really > > >>>>>>>>>> good backwards compatibility and a flavor for a simple wiki > > >> for > > >>>>>> textual > > >>>>>>>>>> collaboration. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> I hope the above allays your fears :) > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Thanks > > >>>>>>>>> -Vincent > > > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
