On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau <[email protected]> wrote: > We had this discussion one year ago with Vincent. He wanted to go in the > direction where everything is an application with a proper UI and not > necessary in the administration. >
> Moreover, it is very important to be able to modify a descriptor from the > main wiki instead of the subwiki, since if you break it, you might be > unable to access your subwiki anymore! It is also very important that a local (subwiki) admin is able to modify (some) fields from the wiki descriptor (like the home page) without having access to the main wiki. The fact that the wiki descriptor is stored in the main wiki is an implementation detail. Thanks, Marius > > > 2014-11-06 11:10 GMT+01:00 Marius Dumitru Florea < > [email protected]>: > >> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 11:00 AM, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> > The problem with the current place is that it is not really natural and >> > thus not very discoverable at all. >> >> I have this feeling to. I wanted to edit the descriptor of a subwiki a >> few days ago and I was surprised I could find anything related in the >> subwiki administration. >> >> > If you have to set the homepage, owner, >> > etc of your wiki, you go to administration, but never to "wiki index > >> edit >> > wiki". >> > >> > I believe that along this thread we have identified that these settings >> are >> > valuable for both the main wiki and subwikis so this makes editing the >> wiki >> > descriptor a valuable and deserving section to be introduced in >> > administration, don`t you agree? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Eduard >> > >> > On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 4:38 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < >> > [email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >> 2014-11-05 14:43 GMT+01:00 Eduard Moraru <[email protected]>: >> >> >> >> > Concerning UC3 and UC4, we should not re-invent the wheel. I have just >> >> > remembered about the fact that we already have the option of setting >> the >> >> > homepage of a wiki exposed in the wiki's descriptor, so this makes is >> >> > already configurable. >> >> > >> >> > All we need to do now, is to expose this configuration further, in >> >> > Administration > Configuration, under Wiki section (just like it was >> for >> >> > workspaces, no idea why we removed it when refactoring to 'wikis'), >> >> >> >> >> >> About this setting in particular it is because it is part of the wiki >> >> descriptor, and we now have only one place to edit these properties. >> >> >> >> >> >> > where >> >> > you can select what is the homepage of your current wiki. Selecting >> the >> >> > owner and basically all the other stuff that you have in a wiki >> >> descriptor >> >> > should be done at this same level, since these are very important >> >> > configurations that one needs to perform for either his main wiki or >> >> > subwiki. >> >> > >> >> > And no, the xwiki-platform-wiki module is not optional (it is part of >> the >> >> > wiki model!), so no point in using a configurable class and throwing >> it >> >> > back in the 'Applications' section. >> >> > >> >> > This actually goes along the lines of 'Proposal4: Set this page as >> >> > homepage' [1], but done in Administration, not on every page, like >> >> Vincent >> >> > suggested. >> >> > >> >> > To get the homepage, apps need to do: >> >> > $services.wiki.getById($services.wiki.currentWikiId).mainPageReference >> >> > Of course, this can be improved to >> >> > $services.wiki.currentWikiDescriptor.mainPageReference >> >> > >> >> > We will be still having the backwards compatibility concerns of P4, >> >> however >> >> > I am sure that practical solutions (e.g. making Main.WebHome redirect >> to >> >> > >> $services.wiki.getById($services.wiki.currentWikiId).mainPageReference, >> >> > etc.) can be found if problems arise in daily use. >> >> > >> >> > WDYT? >> >> > >> >> > ---------- >> >> > [1] >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/HomepageProposal4Setthispageashomepage >> >> > >> >> > On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 6:10 PM, Jeremie BOUSQUET < >> >> > [email protected]> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > Hi, >> >> > > >> >> > > 2014-10-28 21:08 GMT+01:00 [email protected] <[email protected]>: >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > On 28 Oct 2014 at 20:28:15, Jeremie BOUSQUET ( >> >> > [email protected] >> >> > > > (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Hi, >> >> > > > > Le 28 oct. 2014 19:39, "Eduard Moraru" a écrit : >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Hi Vincent, >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 11:05 AM, [email protected] >> >> > > > > > wrote: >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > Hi, >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > On 24 Oct 2014 at 21:18:31, Eduard Moraru ( >> >> [email protected] >> >> > > > (mailto: >> >> > > > > > > [email protected])) wrote: >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Hi, >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > 2 new proposals (P6 and P7) have been made recently. I did >> >> not >> >> > > yet >> >> > > > get >> >> > > > > > > the >> >> > > > > > > > chance to add comments/analysis on them. Feel free to do >> it >> >> in >> >> > > the >> >> > > > > > > > meanwhile if anybody wants to. >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > A few notes on Jeremie's "Proposal7: DistrbutionWizard >> sets >> >> the >> >> > > > > homepage >> >> > > > > > > of >> >> > > > > > > > a flavor and the Help App teaches users" [2]: >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Personally, I find it a rather elegant solution based on >> >> > > > separation of >> >> > > > > > > > concerns. However, you need to be aware that it is a >> >> > medium/long >> >> > > > term >> >> > > > > > > > objective. >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > The way I understood it is that we delegate the task of >> >> > choosing >> >> > > a >> >> > > > > > > homepage >> >> > > > > > > > to the DistributionWizard that will most likely be in >> charge >> >> of >> >> > > > > offering >> >> > > > > > > > the user flavor options. At that point, the homepage of >> the >> >> > > current >> >> > > > > wiki >> >> > > > > > > > will be the homepage of the user selected flavor. >> Optionally, >> >> > we >> >> > > > can >> >> > > > > also >> >> > > > > > > > propose to use a blank page as homepage if the user wants, >> >> > > however >> >> > > > > this >> >> > > > > > > > might be a bit of an overkill, since the user can easily >> edit >> >> > the >> >> > > > page >> >> > > > > > > and >> >> > > > > > > > trash everything. >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > The DW should not know at all about any page. It should be >> up >> >> to >> >> > > the >> >> > > > > > > flavor to define the wiki pages it will contain and install. >> >> Each >> >> > > > flavor >> >> > > > > > > should propose its own home page. >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Maybe I did not choose the best words, but the way I >> understood >> >> it >> >> > > (and >> >> > > > > > tried to reformulate it) was not that the DW explicitly allows >> >> you >> >> > to >> >> > > > > > select a homepage, but that indirectly, through allowing you >> to >> >> > > > install a >> >> > > > > > flavor, it will additionally do the job (again, indirectly) of >> >> > making >> >> > > > you >> >> > > > > > choose a homepage (through the flavor you have selected). >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > Yes that was the idea, possibly: >> >> > > > > - DW doesn't have to know pages or set homepage >> >> > > > > - there could be a new wizard, similar to wizards for new page / >> >> > space >> >> > > > from >> >> > > > > template, that allows choosing a kind of homepage (empty, wiki >> >> > > concepts, >> >> > > > > dashboard, etc) >> >> > > > > - a flavor also adds its homepage as a possible "template" >> >> > > > > - btw it could be exactly the new space from template page, but >> >> with >> >> > > more >> >> > > > > choices than current (empty / dashboard) >> >> > > > > - following a dw run and a flavor installation, this "new Main >> >> space >> >> > > > > homepage from template" wizard is triggered and displayed (or >> just >> >> > > > proposed >> >> > > > > to user through a button or link), and allows user to either >> choose >> >> > > > default >> >> > > > > homepage of the flavor, or use another one >> >> > > > > - current (or reworked) homepage is just the default home of the >> >> > > default >> >> > > > > flavor (which is the current XE xar) >> >> > > > >> >> > > > ok but: >> >> > > > >> >> > > > 1) it’s complex since it means that a flavor would need to >> register >> >> > some >> >> > > > kind of post install script to execute (which is something we >> don’t >> >> > > really >> >> > > > have) >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > Depends, I was thinking more about a specific event like "flavor >> >> > installed" >> >> > > or "extension installed" or "wiki installed / updated". I'm not >> sure to >> >> > get >> >> > > what you would need to do in this post install script ? >> >> > > But it could be completely "manual" or just a link at the end of DW >> to >> >> > some >> >> > > possible post-install stuff (like, consult help, manage home page, >> >> etc). >> >> > > >> >> > > I'd like to apologize here because my "proposal" was more an idea >> than >> >> a >> >> > > well formalized proposal, even if it ended up in the list of >> proposals, >> >> > > it's obvious that it misses some thoughts and clarifications... (I >> >> > > understand your -1). >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > 2) it negates a bit the point of a flavor which is to propose a >> >> defined >> >> > > > “theme” and thus a defined home page matching that theme >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > Well, if you consider that current UI of XE is the default xwiki >> >> > "flavor", >> >> > > this is exactly what it's about when we talk about switching home >> page >> >> > > easily, isn't it ? We want to let user set a home page that doesn't >> >> match >> >> > > the default theme freely. Obviously this default theme is not very >> >> > > "thematic" as it's the default and should be versatile ... >> >> > > Home page matching that theme could still be the mostly recommended >> >> > choice. >> >> > > BTW a flavor, with such mechanism, could provide several "home page" >> >> > > variants and not only one, depending on the case. >> >> > > If I take the case of a flavor based on the Mail archive (or the >> mail >> >> > > archive extension alone, say), it already provides different views >> as >> >> the >> >> > > app home page (timeline, livetable, etc). Currently the switch is >> done >> >> > > through conditional include. Currently that app home page is >> >> > > MailArchive.WebHome, if I could register it as a possible home page >> >> > > template, it would avoid having to rename it "Main.WebHome" to make >> it >> >> a >> >> > > flavor (and potentially destroy existing wiki home page by mistake >> when >> >> > you >> >> > > install that extension/flavor), and I could fullfill both >> installation >> >> > > use-cases (of using it as an app among others in some wiki, and as a >> >> > > wiki-wide-flavor in another wiki or subwiki), from the same xar >> bundled >> >> > > app. >> >> > > Again, here, I talk about possibilities and use-cases that seem >> logical >> >> > or >> >> > > interesting to me if I dig into my proposal, but I really don't >> know if >> >> > > it's a good path or even a good idea for xwiki - I may not have the >> big >> >> > > picture :) >> >> > > Also, the proposal certainly does not offer any solution for >> short-term >> >> > (if >> >> > > you consider it provides options for long-term ;-) ) >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > 3) it doesn’t solve anything since once you select a default >> homepage >> >> > you >> >> > > > still need a way to change it afterwards if you want to change it… >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > There was the side-idea of the proposal (not well formulated, maybe >> was >> >> > > just in my mind) that this wizard and/or DW could be triggered at >> any >> >> > later >> >> > > time by an admin if he wants to replace homepage with some other >> >> > "default" >> >> > > content. Maybe could be seen as a "personalization" step following a >> >> new >> >> > > wiki install or upgrade, but that could be triggered at any later >> time >> >> to >> >> > > "re-personalize" his wiki. I would put this then also as a feature >> in >> >> > admin >> >> > > UI. >> >> > > The difference with some other proposals, is that it would not be an >> >> > action >> >> > > available from the standard UI but limited to a post-install step >> and >> >> the >> >> > > admin UI (not like the variant below). >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > I don’t see how this is much better than having a Admin UI >> allowing >> >> you >> >> > > to >> >> > > > change the home page you wish to have. However it’s a lot more >> >> complex >> >> > > (and >> >> > > > really marginally better). >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Maybe instead of all this, it could be enough to unrelate the >> "new >> >> > > space" >> >> > > > > and "apply space homepage template" features ? >> >> > > > > So I would just have to call "space / apply template" to replace >> >> the >> >> > > > > homepage of any space already existing (including Main >> obviously) ? >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Yes that’s better already IMO but then it should be a menu option >> to >> >> > > > replace any page content with a page template. >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > I'm not sure if you talk about an additional option, or an option >> that >> >> > > would replace the "space /apply template" by a more generic "page / >> >> apply >> >> > > template", but I don't think anyway that a page template is the same >> >> > thing >> >> > > as a home page template (whether it's a space or wiki home page). >> You'd >> >> > > seldom want to use a blog post as a home page ... >> >> > > >> >> > > In this variant, there's still the question, if applying such >> template >> >> is >> >> > > considered an admin operation or not. If it's an admin operation, >> you >> >> > also >> >> > > proposed to start moving those admin actions to the admin UI, which >> is >> >> - >> >> > > sort of - what was my proposal about in first place :) (I didn't >> talk >> >> > > specifically about admin UI at that time, but about avoiding to >> crowd >> >> > > standard UI menus with unfrequent/admin operations). >> >> > > That being said I don't think it's an admin action, if you need to >> >> > protect >> >> > > home page, as an admin you can set specific rights and forbid this >> >> "apply >> >> > > template" to people that don't have those edit rights. I'm not sure >> >> > editing >> >> > > home page and applying a template should really be different in >> terms >> >> of >> >> > > privileges. But applying a template on an existing page or home >> page, >> >> > seems >> >> > > to be a rather unfrequent operation. >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Thanks >> >> > > > -Vincent >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > > It was just a high level view on the direction to follow, and >> >> not a >> >> > > > > > specific technical aspect, so no reason to -1 it, right? >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > BTW there’s also another variation for the home page that >> >> hasn’t >> >> > > been >> >> > > > > > > discussed yet: >> >> > > > > > > * Make the home page special by not making it editable (and >> >> > without >> >> > > > any >> >> > > > > > > docextra tabs at the bottom). So no rollback issue/edit >> >> > weirdness. >> >> > > > > > > * Only admins can change it and only through the Admin UI >> >> > > (basically >> >> > > > > > > decide which space home page to display on the wiki home >> page). >> >> > > > > > > * Somewhere in the content of the default home page or >> through >> >> > the >> >> > > > first >> >> > > > > > > time wizard, direct the users to the Sandbox page to try it >> out >> >> > > > editing >> >> > > > > > > (since this is what Sandbox is for!) >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Adding this too and I think we`re good for going forward with >> a >> >> > vote, >> >> > > > > since >> >> > > > > > we have plenty of proposals. >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Thanks, >> >> > > > > > Eduard >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > Thanks >> >> > > > > > > -Vincent >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > The task of teaching the user is delegated exclusively to >> the >> >> > > Help >> >> > > > > > > > Application, with the note that the application will also >> be >> >> > > > proposed >> >> > > > > to >> >> > > > > > > > the user to be redirected to, as a final step in the DW >> >> (after >> >> > > the >> >> > > > > > > > installation of the user selected flavor is complete). >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > All of this assumes that we have a properly working >> Flavors >> >> > > feature >> >> > > > > and >> >> > > > > > > > Help Application. However, what should we do in the >> meanwhile >> >> > for >> >> > > > the >> >> > > > > > > > default XWiki Enterprise UI / Flavor / build? Should we >> >> > postpone >> >> > > > yet >> >> > > > > > > again >> >> > > > > > > > any work on the homepage until we have the needed >> elements to >> >> > > > delegate >> >> > > > > > > the >> >> > > > > > > > problematic aspects, or should we do something about it in >> >> the >> >> > > > > meanwhile? >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Thanks, >> >> > > > > > > > Eduard >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > ---------- >> >> > > > > > > > [1] >> >> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/HomepageProposals >> >> > > > > > > > [2] >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> >> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/HomepageProposal7DistrbutionWizardsetsthehomepageofaflavorandtheHelpAppteachesusers >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" >> >> > > > Delhumeau < >> >> > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > Hello. >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > I have again a new argument against using the dashboard >> and >> >> > the >> >> > > > > include >> >> > > > > > > > > macro in the main page. >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > When the user uses the "Inline" editor to change some >> >> > gadgets, >> >> > > > she >> >> > > > > can >> >> > > > > > > not >> >> > > > > > > > > use the rollback action of the main page to cancel her >> >> > changes. >> >> > > > She >> >> > > > > > > has to >> >> > > > > > > > > go to the Dashboard page first, and then rollback her >> >> changes >> >> > > > from >> >> > > > > > > there. >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > Having an include macro in the default page is >> absolutely >> >> not >> >> > > > > > > intuitive, >> >> > > > > > > > > even if you make it appears more clearly. >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > Thanks, >> >> > > > > > > > > Guillaume >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> >> > > > devs mailing list >> >> > > > [email protected] >> >> > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> > > > >> >> > > _______________________________________________ >> >> > > devs mailing list >> >> > > [email protected] >> >> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > devs mailing list >> >> > [email protected] >> >> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Guillaume Delhumeau ([email protected]) >> >> Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS >> >> Committer on the XWiki.org project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> devs mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > devs mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> _______________________________________________ >> devs mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> > > > > -- > Guillaume Delhumeau ([email protected]) > Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > Committer on the XWiki.org project > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
