2015-09-14 17:42 GMT+02:00 Guillaume Lerouge <[email protected]>: > Hi, > > I've been thinking a lot about this (while also considering the discussion > about the "Main" space in the other discussion thread). To me, ideally, > there is one and only one hierarchy, which is consistent everywhere. As > discussed at length already, this poses a challenge for at several reasons: > > 1. Technically, there is no hierarchy relationship between the main wiki > and sub-wikis. However, in practice the main wiki often plays the role > of a > portal. > 1. This means that rights will not be inherited between the main wiki > and sub-wikis, which poses a coherency issue >
That is wrong. The rights DO inherit between the main wiki sub-wikis, at least since the Denis' module has been written. > 2. Having a global breadcrumb puts 2 different things at the same level > under the home page of the main wiki: top-level spaces in the main wiki > on > one hand, sub-wiki home pages on the other hand > 1. This is solved for some implementations by simply having one wiki, > without any sub-wikis, and relying only on the nested spaces > mechanism to > handle things > 2. A potential converse would be to have just a global home page, > then use sub-wikis for everything (effectively eliminating the > portal), but > this would cause myriad of issues when using the global search, > accessing > user profiles and so on. > > In the end, I think what this boils down to is an ongoing conflict between > 2 ways of organizing information inside of XWiki: > > 1. The Farm paradigm, where you create sub-wikis for everything > 2. The Nested Spaces paradigm, where you have just one big wiki with > spaces, sub-spaces and so on > > On a daily basis, it's already difficult to tell users when they should > create a sub-wiki versus a space. This is going to be even harder with > Nested Spaces. In my view, many of our discussions come from a tension > between these 2 ways of organizing content inside of XWiki. > Obviously, going all in for one of these 2 ways would make choices much > simpler for the future but cause a retro-compatibility nightmare... All > this to say that I'm not sure which compromise is best for the breadcrumb > :-) > > Food for thought, > > Guillaume > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 5:07 PM, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Because of the "Subwikis" pseudo-element? Even so, still looks better in > > that direction. > > > > In any way, I am not sure we even want to (or even can) be 100% > consistent > > with the breadcrumbs, because the breadcrumbs only show a single path in > > the tree and does not care about scaling horizontally in the tree > hierarchy > > (i.e. siblings). However, an actual tree view would suffer from the > > scalability issues you`ve mentioned because the root can have both > subwikis > > and documents as it's first level children, so I believe a compromise is > > inevitable. > > > > ATM we have these 2 options: > > > > 1. Lose the hierarchy between the main wiki and display it as a regular > > subwiki, and the user should guess (or find out through some visual cues, > > like an icon or something... or simply because of the name) that one of > > them is the main wiki. There would also be scalability issues in finding > > the main wiki amongst 30 other wikis. Sure, search/filtering would be a > > solution, but I am afraid that such an operation would be language > > dependent (searching for a translated string). > > 1.1 Note that we would also lose the breadcrumb's hierarchy information > for > > subwikis, since we would not be showing the main wiki in te breadcrumbs > any > > more, to be consistent with the tree. A sort of revert to what we were > > previously doing. > > > > 2. Lose a fraction of the consistency by having the extra "Subwikis" (or > > call it whatever we want) pseudo-element showing up in the tree that will > > not be displayed in the breadcrumbs, though I am not sure anybody would > > want/like to see such an entry in the breadcrumbs of any subwiki > document. > > > > Other ideas? > > > > That's all I got right now. > > > > Thanks, > > Eduard > > > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 4:19 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 4:15 PM, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > Would this be viewed as an improvement? > > > > > > > > Home > > > > |-- Subwikis > > > > |---- Sub Wiki 1 > > > > |---- Sub Wiki 2 > > > > |---- ... > > > > |---- Sub Wiki N > > > > |-- Document 1 > > > > |-- Document 2 > > > > |-- ... > > > > |-- Document N > > > > > > > > ...same logic we apply for objects, and attachments in a document. > > > > > > Still not consistent with the breadcrumb. > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, when displaying the tree only for Sub Wiki X (isolated), > > there > > > > would be no "Subwikis" entry as first child. That would be the > > difference > > > > when displaying a subwiki or when displaying the main wiki. > > > > > > > > I`m not 100% on this, just mentioning a possibility. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Eduard > > > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 3:22 PM, [email protected] < > [email protected] > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On 2 Sep 2015 at 13:34:27, Marius Dumitru Florea ( > > > >> [email protected]) wrote: > > > >> > > > >> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:09 PM, [email protected] < > > [email protected] > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > On 24 Aug 2015 at 14:21:19, Marius Dumitru Florea ( > > > >> [email protected](mailto: > [email protected] > > )) > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> >> Hi devs, > > > >> >> > > > >> >> I recently discussed with Edy about how the breadcrumb should > look > > > and > > > >> >> there may be an inconsistency with the hierarchy displayed by the > > > >> >> document tree. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Breadcrumb on the main wiki: > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / MDoc1 / MDoc2 / > > > ... / > > > >> MDocX > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Breadcrumb on a subwiki (that has only global users): > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Home Icon (pointing to the main wiki home page) / Subwiki Pretty > > Name > > > >> >> (pointing to the subwiki home page) / SDoc1 / SDoc2 / ... / SDocX > > > >> >> > > > >> >> After seeing the breadcrumbs both on the main wiki and on a > subwiki > > > >> >> the user might think that the document MDoc1 and the wiki > "Subwiki > > > >> >> Pretty Name" are on the same level: both children of the main > wiki. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Next if the user tries the document tree macro using: > > > >> >> > > > >> >> {{documentTree showWikis="true" /}} > > > >> >> > > > >> >> he will notice that "Subwiki Pretty Name" is not actually a child > > of > > > >> >> the main wiki but a top level node (a child of the "farm"), on > the > > > >> >> same level with the main wiki. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Can this be considered as an inconsistency? In our model (e.g. > > > >> >> document reference) there is no hierarchy between wikis, > although, > > as > > > >> >> Edy pointed out, there are places where we consider the main wiki > > to > > > >> >> be the "parent" of the subwikis (e.g. in the authorization > module, > > by > > > >> >> inheriting access rights from the main wiki). > > > >> >> > > > >> >> WDYT? Is the main wiki the parent of the subwikis or just a > > sibling? > > > >> > > > > >> > Good question and indeed we need to decide what we want to do > since > > we > > > >> have the 2 options. > > > >> > > > > >> > Personally I think it’s interesting to mark the main wiki as > special > > > >> since it is special (accounts there are different than on subwikis) > so > > > I’d > > > >> be in favor of considering subwikis as children of the main wiki. > > > >> > > > > >> >> Should the breadcrumb be synchronized with the tree? > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > I’d say the other way around. The tree should probably show the > main > > > >> wiki as the parent of all subwikis. And when there’s only one wiki > (ie > > > the > > > >> main wiki), we could simply not show the wiki level for simplicity. > We > > > >> could also decide to open the tree to the level below the main wiki > by > > > >> default so that users don’t have to open it themselves. > > > >> > > > >> I find it strange to display: > > > >> > > > >> Home > > > >> |-- Sub Wiki 1 > > > >> |-- Sub Wiki 2 > > > >> |-- ... > > > >> |-- Sub Wiki N > > > >> |-- Document 1 > > > >> |-- Document 2 > > > >> |-- ... > > > >> |-- Document N > > > >> > > > >> Not to mention the pagination. If there are too many subwikis then > you > > > >> may not see the documents initially. I much prefer the current > > > >> display. > > > >> I would find it painful to have to open the tree for nodes that you > > need > > > >> to open anyway. > > > >> > > > >> Another idea: when you click on Document Index from a menu, the Tree > > > opens > > > >> on the current doc. > > > >> > > > >> Thanks > > > >> > > > >> -Vincent > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Thanks, > > > >> Marius > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > Thanks > > > >> > -Vincent > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Thanks, > > > >> >> Marius > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> devs mailing list > > > >> [email protected] > > > >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > < > https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5cdaba15b1a0ee796e40340be950c6540850990f?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.xwiki.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdevs&signature=5e2b6f767b5ff9fb > > > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > devs mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > < > https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5cdaba15b1a0ee796e40340be950c6540850990f?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.xwiki.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdevs&signature=5e2b6f767b5ff9fb > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > devs mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > < > https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5cdaba15b1a0ee796e40340be950c6540850990f?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.xwiki.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdevs&signature=5e2b6f767b5ff9fb > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > < > https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5cdaba15b1a0ee796e40340be950c6540850990f?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.xwiki.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdevs&signature=5e2b6f767b5ff9fb > > > > > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > -- Guillaume Delhumeau ([email protected]) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
