On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 12 Apr 2016, at 15:43, Marius Dumitru Florea
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Marius,
>>>
>>>> On 12 Apr 2016, at 14:56, Marius Dumitru Florea <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi devs,
>>>>
>>>> We need to decide what is the expected link reference serialization
>>>> produced by the WYSIWYG editor when you create a link to a wiki page. I
>>>> think we have to choose between 3 options:
>>>>
>>>> (1) Output untyped (ambiguous) link references whenever possible
>>>> (2) Always output unambiguous (typed) link references (both 'doc:' and
>>>> 'space:')
>>>> (3) Always output 'doc:' link references (no 'space:' references)
>>>>
>>>> Let's see the details:
>>>>
>>>> = OPTION 1: Output untyped link references whenever possible =
>>>>
>>>> == <7.2 ==
>>>>
>>>> Link from A.B
>>>> * to A.WebHome (space home page) => [[WebHome]]
>>>> * to A.C (same space) => [[C]]
>>>
>>> I don’t understand why you’re using relative links in your 2 examples
>>> above. Option (1) says untyped, it doesn’t say convert links into relative
>>> links.
>>>
>>> So for me that would be:
>>>
>>> * to A.WebHome (space home page) => [[A.WebHome]]
>>> * to A.C (same space) => [[A.C]]
>>>
>>>> * to X.Y (different space) => [[X.Y]]
>>>> * to X.WebHome => [[X.WebHome]]
>>>>
>>>> == 7.2+ ==
>>>>
>>>> Link from A.B.WebHome
>>>> * to A.WebHome (its parent) => [[space:A]]
>>>
>>> Note 1: We could also imagine introducing a syntax for absolute links such
>>> as [[:A]]
>>> Note 2: We could also imagine introducing a syntax for parent links such
>>> as [[..A]]
>>>
>>>> * to A.B.C or A.B.C.WebHome or A.C or A.C.WebHome (child or sibling) =>
>>>> [[C]] (very ambiguous)
>>>
>>> This is using a relative notation. But (1) is not about transforming links
>>> into relative links.
>>>
>>> so for me this is:
>>> * => [[A.B.C]]
>>> * => [[A.C]]
>>>
>>> I’m stopping reading here since first we need to clarify if (1) is about
>>> a) untyped or b) using relative references.
>>>
>>> IMO it should be about a) and doesn’t have to do b).
>>>
>>>
>>
>>> Maybe I misunderstood something?
>>>
>>
>> Generating relative references is a must for me (whenever possible), no
>> matter what output format we choose. I'm surprised there's any doubt about
>> this. The current WYSIWYG editor is generating relative references and the
>> CKEditor should continue to do this. Relative references have many
>> advantages (eases the refactoring, allows you to export a hierarchy and
>> import it somewhere else, etc.).
>
> Didn’t realize the WYSIWYG was already doing this!
>
> Indeed there are pros. The cons is that it can make the linking more
> ambiguous., but overall it’s probably a good thing.
>
> Also note that ideally we’d need to not convert existing links when going
> through the WYSIWYG editor. That’s true independently of this discussion
> though.
This is handled by XML comments containing the source reference so the
only thing the WYSIWYG need to do is to not touch those comments
(unless the user explicitly modify the target of course).
>
> Thanks for the reply, I understand now.
>
>> So option (1) is about untyped relative links, option (2) is about typed
>> relative links and option (3) is about doc: relative links. In other words:
>> (1) don't generate "doc:" and "space:"
>> (2) generate both "doc:" and "space:"
>> (3) generate only "doc:" (don't hide WebHome)
>
> I’ve now read again the first mail and I’m in favor of (2).
>
> The main reason for me is that we want to hide WebHome and with Nested Pages,
> all links would have WebHome in them with option (3).
>
> Option (3) is really the worst for users: they get to see both “doc:” and
> “WebHome” :)
>
> Also note that even option (2) is not perfect because of the “doc:” and
> “space:” prefixes which are also hard to understand for users.
>
> I also know users who use both WYSIWYG and wiki editors (and who think that
> WebHome is confusing - We’re used to it, but it’s really confusing if you’re
> just starting to use XWiki - you don’t even understand what it means at all).
>
> To summarize: +1 for (2).
>
> Note: My choice for (2) is based purely on a usability POV. It could be that
> implementing option (2) is so much complex that it’s not worth it and that
> we’d want to wait till we change the underlying model before changing the
> linking syntax.
>
> Last note: Maybe we need to invent some completely new syntax for linking
> since currently it has become very complex. I remember of any mail where I
> proposed some new syntax for links using a different syntax such as [[[…]]].
> It could be interesting to spec a new simpler syntax such as:
> * Use “/“ instead of “.” (we already know that users would prefer “/“ since
> they’re more used to that symbol)
> * Leading “/“ means absolute. Example: [[[/A/B]]]
> * Use “..” for parent. Example: [[[..A/B]]]
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>> Thanks,
>> Marius
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>>> * to A.B.C.D or A.B.C.D.WebHome (nested page two levels or more below) =>
>>>> [[.C.D]] (ambiguous)
>>>> * to A.C.D or A.C.D.WebHome (nested page under sibling) => [[A.C.D]]
>>>> (ambiguous)
>>>> * to X.Y.Z or X.Y.Z.WebHome => [[X.Y.Z]] (ambiguous)
>>>>
>>>> Link from A.B (terminal)
>>>> * to A.WebHome (its parent) => [[space:A]]
>>>> * to A.C or A.C.WebHome (sibling) => [[C]] (ambiguous)
>>>> * to A.C.D or A.C.D.WebHome (nested page under sibling) => [[A.C.D]]
>>>> (ambiguous)
>>>> * to X.Y or X.Y.WebHome => [[X.Y]] (ambiguous)
>>>>
>>>> Link from A.B.C (terminal) or A.B.C.WebHome
>>>> * to A.B.WebHome (its parent) => [[A.B]] (ambiguous)
>>>>
>>>> PROS:
>>>> * shorter link references
>>>> * hides WebHome from source syntax on 7.2+
>>>>
>>>> CONS:
>>>> * ambiguous link references
>>>> * complex code
>>>> * different output for <7.2 and 7.2+ in case of top level space
>>> [[WebHome]]
>>>> or [[A.WebHome]] vs. [[space:A]] (we need to check if support for nested
>>>> spaces is available)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> = OPTION 2: Always output unambiguous link references =
>>>>
>>>> == <7.2 ==
>>>>
>>>> Link from A.B
>>>> * to A.WebHome (space home page) => [[doc:WebHome]] (relative)
>>>> * to A.C (same space) => [[doc:C]] (relative)
>>>> * to X.Y (different space) => [[doc:X.Y]]
>>>> * to X.WebHome => [[doc:X.WebHome]]
>>>>
>>>> == 7.2+ ==
>>>>
>>>> Link from A.B.WebHome
>>>> * to A.WebHome (its parent) => [[space:A]]
>>>> * to A.B.C (terminal child) => [[doc:C]] (relative)
>>>> * to A.B.C.WebHome (non-terminal child) => [[space:A.B.C]] (absolute)
>>>> * to A.C (terminal sibling) => [[doc:A.C]]
>>>> * to A.C.WebHome (non-terminal sibling) => [[space:A.C]]
>>>> * to A.B.C.D (terminal descendant) => [[doc:.C.D]] (relative)
>>>> * to A.B.C.D.WebHome (non-terminal descendant) => [[space:A.B.C.D]]
>>>> (absolute)
>>>> * to A.C.D (terminal descendant of sibling) => [[doc:A.C.D]]
>>>> * to A.C.D.WebHome (non-terminal descendant of sibling) =>
>>> [[space:A.C.D]]
>>>> * to X.Y.Z => [[doc:X.Y.Z]]
>>>> * to X.Y.Z.WebHome => [[space:X.Y.Z]]
>>>>
>>>> Link from A.B (terminal)
>>>> * to A.WebHome (its parent) => [[space:A]]
>>>> * to A.C (terminal sibling) => [[doc:C]] (relative)
>>>> * to A.C.WebHome (non-terminal sibling) => [[space:A.C]] (absolute)
>>>> * to A.C.D (terminal descendant of sibling) => [[doc:.C.D]] (relative)
>>>> * to A.C.D.WebHome (non-terminal descendant of sibling) =>
>>> [[space:A.C.D]]
>>>> * to X.Y => [[doc:X.Y]]
>>>> * to X.Y.WebHome => [[space:X.Y]]
>>>>
>>>> Link from A.B.C (terminal) or A.B.C.WebHome
>>>> * to A.B.WebHome (its parent) => [[space:A.B]] (absolute)
>>>>
>>>> PROS:
>>>> * unambiguous link references ("what you link is what you get")
>>>> * slightly less complex code (but still complex)
>>>> * hides WebHome from source syntax on 7.2+
>>>>
>>>> CONS:
>>>> * longer link references (because of "doc:" and "space:" prefixes)
>>>> * cannot specify relative 'space:' references
>>>> * different output for <7.2 and 7.2+ in case of [[doc:WebHome]] vs.
>>>> [[space:A]]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> = OPTION 3: Always output 'doc:' references =
>>>>
>>>> == <7.2 ==
>>>>
>>>> Link from A.B
>>>> * to A.WebHome (space home page) => [[doc:WebHome]] (relative)
>>>> * to A.C (same space) => [[doc:C]] (relative)
>>>> * to X.Y (different space) => [[doc:X.Y]]
>>>> * to X.WebHome => [[doc:X.WebHome]]
>>>>
>>>> == 7.2+ ==
>>>>
>>>> Link from A.B.WebHome
>>>> * to A.WebHome (its parent) => [[doc:A.WebHome]]
>>>> * to A.B.C (terminal child) => [[doc:C]] (relative)
>>>> * to A.B.C.WebHome (non-terminal child) => [[doc:.C.WebHome]] (relative)
>>>> * to A.C (terminal sibling) => [[doc:A.C]]
>>>> * to A.C.WebHome (non-terminal sibling) => [[doc:A.C.WebHome]]
>>>> * to A.B.C.D (terminal descendant) => [[doc:.C.D]] (relative)
>>>> * to A.B.C.D.WebHome (non-terminal descendant) => [[doc:.C.D.WebHome]]
>>>> (relative)
>>>> * to A.C.D (terminal descendant of sibling) => [[doc:A.C.D]]
>>>> * to A.C.D.WebHome (non-terminal descendant of sibling) =>
>>>> [[doc:A.C.D.WebHome]]
>>>> * to X.Y.Z => [[doc:X.Y.Z]]
>>>> * to X.Y.Z.WebHome => [[doc:X.Y.Z.WebHome]]
>>>>
>>>> Link from A.B (terminal)
>>>> * to A.WebHome (its parent) => [[doc:WebHome]] (relative)
>>>> * to A.C (terminal sibling) => [[doc:C]] (relative)
>>>> * to A.C.WebHome (non-terminal sibling) => [[doc:.C.WebHome]] (relative)
>>>> * to A.C.D (terminal descendant of sibling) => [[doc:.C.D]] (relative)
>>>> * to A.C.D.WebHome (non-terminal descendant of sibling) =>
>>>> [[doc:.C.D.WebHome]] (relative)
>>>> * to X.Y => [[doc:X.Y]]
>>>> * to X.Y.WebHome => [[doc:X.Y.WebHome]]
>>>>
>>>> Link from A.B.C (terminal)
>>>> * to A.B.WebHome (its parent) => [[doc:WebHome]] (relative)
>>>>
>>>> Link from A.B.C.WebHome
>>>> * to A.B.WebHome (its parent) => [[doc:A.B.WebHome]] (absolute)
>>>>
>>>> PROS:
>>>> * unambiguous link references ("what you link is what you get")
>>>> * relative references for nested non-terminal descendants
>>>> * same output for <7.2 and 7.2+
>>>> * simpler code (easier to maintain)
>>>>
>>>> CONS:
>>>> * doesn't hide WebHome from source syntax
>>>> * longer link references (because of "doc:" prefix and "WebHome" suffix)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't like ambiguous links so I'm against option (1). I don't think the
>>>> WYSIWYG editor users care too much about the wiki syntax (option 2), as I
>>>> commented on http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-13083, so I'm +1 for
>>> option
>>>> (3).
>>>>
>>>> WDYT?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Marius
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