--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Gusti Benawi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

Hi *,

Mengenai Acchariya Abbhuta Sutta, kemaren-kemaren sempat gua tanya
tanggapan seorang Bhante, Bhante Medhayo, berikut gua forward
tanggapannya. 

PS: Bhante Medhayo seorang kelahiran Irlandia, dan sekarang sedang
menetap di Jerman, jadi tanggapannya cuman dalam bahasa Inggris.
Semoga dapat dimengerti.

Selamat membaca

[Fwd begins]

Hello Gusti,

With the exception of paragraphs 1 and 22, is there any part of MN 123
that bears any resemblance to the teachings of the Buddha in style or
content?

With the exception of paragraph 22, is any trace of the sutta useful
to the elimination of suffering? (And of paragraph 22, is there any
wisdom of a profound level comparable to the Buddha?)

Is there any detectable trace of wisdom anywhere in the sutta?

Is it consistent with the Buddha's teaching on dependent origination?

Is it consistent with the Simsapa leaves sutta in the Samyutta Nikaya
where the Buddha said he had only taught what is useful for the
elimination of suffering?

Is there any detectable trace in the sutta which is consistent with
the Kalama Sutta?

Is it consistent with the Buddha's claim that he was born as a human
being?

Is it plausible that the Buddha could know from his own experience all
the things which are alleged to have happened when "he" descended into
the womb of his mother?

If he had such miraculous powers, did he need 4 deities to guard him
while in the womb, and shouldn't they have guarded his mother after
his birth also?

In the Mahaparinibbana Sutta (DN 16), shortly before he passed away,
the Buddha described criteria for testing the Dhamma which monks could
use subsequently for testing whether a teaching of the Dhamma is a
true teaching of the Buddha that is correctly understood, or whether
it is not the word of the Buddha, not correctly understood:

"Monks, I will teach you four criteria. Listen, pay attention, and I
will speak. Suppose a monk were to say: 'Friends, I heard and received
this from the Lord's own lips: this is the Dhamma, this is the
discipline, this is the Master's teaching", then, monks, you should
neither approve nor disapprove his words. Then, without approving or
disapproving, his words and expressions should be carefully noted and
compared with the Suttas and reviewed in the light of the discipline.
If they, on such comparison and review, are found not to conform to
the Suttas or the discipline, the conclusion must be: 'Assuredly this
is not the word of the Buddha, it has been wrongly understood by this
monk', and the matter is to be rejected. But where on such comparison
and review they are found to conform to the suttas and the discipline,
the conclusion must be: 'Assuredly this is the word of the Buddha, it
has been rightly understood by this monk.' This is the first criterion."

"Suppose a monk were to say: 'In such and such a place there is a
community with elders and distinguished teachers. I have heard and
received this from that community', then monks, you should neither
approve nor disapprove his words. Then, without approving or
disapproving, his words and expressions should be carefully noted and
compared with the Suttas and reviewed in the light of the discipline.
If they, on such comparison and review, are found not to conform to
the Suttas or the discipline, the conclusion must be:
'Assuredly this is not the word of the Buddha, it has been wrongly
understood by this monk', and the matter is to be rejected. But where
on such comparison and review they are found to conform to the suttas
and the discipline, the conclusion must be: 'Assuredly this is the
word of the Buddha, it has been rightly understood by this monk.' This
is the second criterion."

"Suppose a monk were to say: 'In such and such a place there are many
elders who are learned, bearers of the tradition, who know the Dhamma,
the discipline, the code of rules. I have heard and received this from
those elders', then monks, you should neither approve nor disapprove
his words.
Then, without approving or disapproving, his words and expressions
should be carefully noted and compared with the Suttas and reviewed in
the light of the discipline. If they, on such comparison and review,
are found not to conform to the Suttas or the discipline, the
conclusion must be: 'Assuredly this is not the word of the Buddha, it
has been wrongly understood by this monk', and the matter is to be
rejected. But where on such comparison and review they are found to
conform to the suttas and the discipline, the conclusion must be:
'Assuredly this is the word of the Buddha, it has been rightly
understood by this monk.' This is the third criterion."

"Suppose a monk were to say: 'In such and such a place there is one
elder who is learned, bearer of the tradition, who knows the Dhamma,
the discipline, the code of rules. I have heard and received this from
that elder', then monks, you should neither approve nor disapprove his
words.
Then, without approving or disapproving, his words and expressions
should be
carefully noted and compared with the Suttas and reviewed in the light
of the discipline. If they, on such comparison and review, are found
not to conform to the Suttas or the discipline, the conclusion must
be: 'Assuredly this is not the word of the Buddha, it has been wrongly
understood by this monk', and the matter is to be rejected. But where
on such comparison and review they are found to conform to the suttas
and the discipline, the conclusion must be: 'Assuredly this is the
word of the Buddha, it has been rightly understood by this monk.'"

(translation by Maurice Walshe)

If you examine MN 123 in accordance with the Buddha's instructions,
what conclusion is obtained?

With metta
Bhante Medhayo

[Fwd ends]

regards,

Gusti
--- End forwarded message ---






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