Forgive me, but, isn't good recycling just the flip side of technology integration? Along with computer delivery, can't we also deliver instruction on use; technical support; *and recycling education?
That's what we're doing in AZ, because experience shows that this is the way to limit waste. If your recipients can provide all of this, great; and if not, well, you really ought to take care of it. With all due respect to those who are working to bridge all sorts of divides, Kwame has really good points, and we could listen and work with her to find solutions that would take care of her concerns. The more I work with technology, the more I see that other aspects are important. As for Fords, in our (almost ten years now) experience with technology integration at Floaters.org, older computers are better than none at all; but there are a couple of problems to think about. One is the concept of "reproduction" - in giving people old computers - are we somehow reinforcing the thought that these people are not somehow not worth new ones? The way to avoid this is by showing people not just that any computer is better than none, but rather by explaining the advantages of old computers. Yes, there are advantages. One is transfer of learning: begin with an old computer or application, work up to a better one, and lo and behold, you have the skills to learn a third on your own. And, when you begin with a five year old computer or application, you are in essence going back in time. Upgrade in a year, and you can give yourself the equivalent of five years' worth of experience in one. In training graphics artists I find that it is ideal to have them begin on an ! older computer with an older set of apps since otherwise they take longer to optimize their time. Older OSs at times are less apt to break or be broken into via viruses and worms. However!!! the major, major problem from a pedagogical standpoint is: what happens when people are trained, and ready to move up to new, cutting edge equipment, and it is not there? This is so discouraging. You would not believe how discouraging it is. In case you are wondering, I finished my dissertation last year :-) and went into all of this, though from a local standpoint. So, Kwame, I have really been thinking about your concerns for awhile now. We were and are using older computers and now are sending some to Mexico. The dissertation is called Examining Participation and Home-Base Technology Integration with a High Risk Population and you can see the original proposal here (the final version is not on the web yet.) http://www.floaters.org/proposal/ Oh, and you can also view the latest images from Mexico on the main page :-) http://www.floaters.org/ - sandy - Sandra Sutton Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] Floaters.org Research and Instruction Grassroots Technology Integration > ---------- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of VSCAVENGER > Reply To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group > Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 10:29 AM > To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [DDN] Bridges.org produces comprehensive guide > onsettingupandoperating a successful computer refurbishment centre in Africa > > Well, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. Perhaps if > you read some of the emails I get from people in Africa and Central America, > asking for computers and/or thanking us and telling us what a difference > these computers have made in their community you might begin to understand. > However, I really do wish you would stop misrepresenting the computers we > send. As I have tried to explain several times, these are not "junk" > computers; immediately prior to our sending them out they will have been > running some of the largest and most successful corporations in the world, > > Lilly Pharmaceuticals, Anthem Insurance, etc. We send Pentium II and > Pentium III computers with CD drives and modems or network cards, they have > a minimum of 64mb of RAM. with licensed copies of Windows 98 or Windows > 2000. > I am sorry you had such a bad experience with Computer Aid > International in Tanzania, but it does seem a bit extreme to write off an > entire industry based on one bad experience. > Thanks, > John Crooks > Virtual Scavengers > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lars Hasselblad Torres" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 2:05 PM > Subject: Re: [DDN] Bridges.org produces comprehensive guide on > settingupandoperating a successful computer refurbishment centre in Africa > > > > On the ford/mazzerati analogy, I tried to help a fellow in Tanzania get > > some > > computers for an output he wanted to supply. We were in touch with a firm > > called, Computer Aid International. My complaint with their service, as > > it > > turns out, was that none of the computers they were going to supply would > > come with cd-rom drives. > > > > Unless its to a specialized vo-tech program, a school that has specified > > an > > interest in remedial training, or as part of a package that includes > > software and some form of tech support, I am not sure how, in good > > conscience, such groups can "dump" these computers on any nation. My > > guess > > is that, after some futzing around trying to find software (starting with > > Windows) on floppies, a large number of these processors would have ended > > up > > in the rubbish heap or storage closet. > > > > The organization I was working with did not have immediate access to the > > kind of support necessary to network and get these computers up and > > running. > > And if I hadn't called ahead of time, they'd have been out about $7k in > > shipping costs. In today's dollars, that money would have been better > > spent > > on cheap, but up-to-date processors and sought a creative solution to the > > problem of transportation. > > > > In my mind, the computer dumping problem (when it indeed is such) is no > > better than food aid dumping programs that serve to regulate domestic > > supply. > > > > Peace -- > > > > Lars > > -- > > lars hasselblad torres > > tagstudio.net > > art + technology + democracy > > > > http://tagstudio.net > > > > > > On 11/12/04 3:16 PM, "kwame dwamena dakwa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >>> Forgive me Kwame but I think you are missing the point. The > >>> computers > >>> are not being sent to developing nations because they don't meet > >>> environmental standards. They are in perfect operating condition. They > >>> simply aren't new. > > On 11/12/04 3:16 PM, "kwame dwamena dakwa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, VSCAVENGER wrote: > >>> > >>> Forgive me Kwame but I think you are missing the point. The > >>> computers > >>> are not being sent to developing nations because they don't meet > >>> environmental standards. They are in perfect operating condition. They > >>> simply aren't new. They are no more or less environmentally sound then > >>> the > >>> computer on which I am writing this message. They are being sent to the > >>> developinf world because that is a far better use for them then grinding > >>> them up and/or putting them in a landfill. > >>> To ask "WHY should it be used in Africa?" is like saying, "If a > >>> wealthy > >>> man drives a Mazaratti rather than a Ford, why should I be willing to > >>> drive > >>> this Ford somebody is offering me? I insist on having a Mazaratti > >>> also!" > >>> Thanks, > >>> John Crooks > >>> Virtual Scavengers > >>> > >> > >> John: > >> > >> The fact that you may not understand my point does not mean > >> I am missing "the point". I am aware of new and refurbished> > >> computers and that is not the issue. Refurbished equipment > >> is ofcourse a viable option for any tight IT budget. Your > >> analogy of a wealthy man driving a Mazaratti and someone > >> also insisting on driving one is totally flawed and just > >> perpetuates the colonial mentality some westerners still > >> have about Africa/ns. That Dark Continent mentality, and > >> that the poor should be grateful for the crumbs falling > >> off the rich mans table. > >> > >> Ask yourself, if all the parts of a new or refurbished computer > >> were environmentally safe, then why the environmental mandates? > >> As some may already know, discarded computers and other electronic > >> waste contribute more than two-thirds of the heavy metals put > >> into U.S. landfills. Sometimes there isnt even room for them; > >> a large number of discarded computers go into storage due to > >> a lack of suitable disposal sites. > >> > >> According to the UN there are about 600 million decommissioned > >> computers in the world's 30 richest countries. Guess where they > >> might be headed ! And in 10-15 years as technology advances with > >> speedier chips and more streamlined hardware, guess again where > >> all those obsolete machines will go ! I hope you see the bigger > >> picture instead of the Mazaratti/Ford analogy you gave. > >> > >> I am a strong advocate of Africans being extremely cautious of > >> these "free computers". > >> > >> stay strong, > >> Kwame Dwamena Dakwa > >> > >> Doctoral Candidate > >> Compton Foundation Peace Fellow > >> Educational Psychology: Learning & Instructional Psychology > >> Indiana University 812-856-8333 (F) > >> Bloomington, IN 47405-1006 812-219-0765 (C) > >> > >> "Knowledge rules the world, and ignorance carries the burden." > >> Marcus Garvey > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide > >> To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> with > >> the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide > > To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide > To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE > in the body of the message. > > _______________________________________________ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
