On Tuesday, 6 September 2016 at 13:41:22 UTC, Jesper Tholstrup
wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 September 2016 at 02:22:50 UTC, Illuminati wrote:
It's concise and has a very specific meaning.
Well, only if we can agree on what the symbols mean. I'm not
sure that every symbol is concise and specific across the
fields of mathematics, statistics, and physics.
The worst part, however, is our (humans, that is) intrinsic
desire to be "clever". There will be an endless incorrect use
of symbols, which will render code very difficult to understand
Friday afternoon when things break.
Symbols are inherently meaningless so you are not making sense.
Clever is what got humans out the jungle, I think it is a good
thing. No need to denigrate it when you benefit from people being
clever. Of course, you could argue that staying in the jungle
would have been the best thing...
The whole point of symbols is to simplify, ∩ is more simple
than intersect as the first requires 1 symbol and the second
requires 8 symbols.
I don't buy that argument - fewer symbols is better? If so
disagree, its a lot easier to make and a lot harder to catch a
∩ vs ∪ error compared to 'intersect()' vs 'union()' error.
How is Unicode normalization handled? It is my impression that
certain symbols can be represented in more than one way. I
could be wrong...
Mathematicians don't seem to get confused by symbols. intersect
is a symbol. It is no different than ∩ or any other symbol. It is
just chicken scratch. There is no inherent meaning in the wavy
lines. If you think there is then you are deluding yourself. You
have simply memorized what those groups of symbols mean and you
are too lazy to memorize what some other symbol means. Once you
realize the game you are playing with yourself then it becomes
easier to break the bad habit and not get caught up in the
nonsense.
The reason why ∩ is better than intersect is because it is
quicker to see and analyze(due to its "size"). True, it is more
ambiguous, as ambiguity depends on size, but at least in this
case it has been well established just as π and 1,2,3..., etc.
But if you are so concerned about ambiguity then why not
intersectsetofarithmeticintegerswithsetofarithmeticintegers? That
is far less ambiguous than intersect.
My point is, you are playing games. You might not realize it but
that is what is going on. If you want to be truthful, it is
better to say "I prefer to use my own personal standardized
notation that I have already learned since it takes precious time
away from my own life.". When do you this, I cannot argue with
you, but then you also have to accept that you cannot argue with
me(or anyone else). Because what makes sense or works for you
might not work for me or someone else.
Your argument is exactly analogous to "I don't speak french! Use
English you stupid french speaking person, french is for idiots
anyways". The tone is irrelevant, the point is acting like one
superficial system is better than some other superficial system
simply because of perspective/laziness/arrogance/etc. The only
issues are that either you are failing to see the systems as
superficial or you are failing to see that your own personal
center of the universe is not actually the center of the universe.
So just be real. The reason you don't like it is because it
confuses you. If it didn't, you wouldn't have a problem with it.
If you could speak French and English then you, if you were that
hypothetical person, wouldn't care what language was used. All I
can say is that everyone is confused until they learn something.
But don't confuse your confusion with some innate scale of
better/worse, it only leads to more confusion. The solution to
all confusion is familiarity. Become familiar with your
confusion(e.g., using ∩) and it won't be confusing anymore.
The reason the mathematical symbols don't phase me is because I
spent years using them. In my mind ∩ = intersection of sets(which
I have a non-verbal meaning in my own mind on what that means). I
see no difference between ∩ and intersect. Hence I am not
confused. If someone comes along and uses ∩ to mean what I call
union. Then it won't confuse me either. Because I realize they
have just relabeled stuff. Sure I have to keep track, but as long
as they are logical(consistent) then I'll get used to(familiar)
with their system and it won't be a problem. I won't get angry or
upset that they are trying to pull the rug out from underneath
me. I'll realize that they just speak French and if I want to
communicate with them I'll learn French. No big deal, I'll be
more enlightened from doing so. Sure it takes some time, but what
else do we humans have to do? Everything we do just superficial
anyways.
