On Thursday, 11 September 2014 at 12:26:39 UTC, Ola Fosheim
Grøstad wrote:
On Monday, 8 September 2014 at 23:31:49 UTC, Dicebot wrote:
And there are no NG rules that say I shouldn't write some
off-topic bullshit in your threads. Also clearly the only
reason why we don't casually walk around shooting people is
because laws prohibit doing so, otherwise it is perfectly
reasonable thing to do.
Listen to me, and listen carefully. If you want to challenge me
verbally, please don't put your head on the chopping block. A
verbal fight where you put yourself up for verbal annihilation
is just no fun!
Looks like you have forgotten to use the "Listen, kid," approach.
Would fit the theme and make your point so much more convincing.
I truly believe you when you claim that you are a people's
person and that the community is more important to you than the
product/license. Unfortunately you completely undermine your
"people over license" argument by using abusive techniques that
are usually tied to brainwashed people-unfriendly cultists.
Techniques such as: trying to silence members by pointing out
their lack of worth, threatening by shunning and resorting to
ridicule.
Quite the opposite to most people I hold few sympathies for any
specific personalities, only for communities in general. I
believe in self-organizing systems and sometimes being loud and
abusive is simply a best way to ensure the point being noted and
remembered. The fact that this discussion still continues despite
my absence in NG for some time is a good indicator of success.
Community is important but community can be a bitch. Or some
specific personalities in the community (I am not reluctant at
all to take such role when needed). This is most important thing
to remember when doing any open-source development with no clear
organization - despite the fact that you comply to all
licences/laws someone still can hate you (and also comply all the
licences/laws!).
There are pretty much only two options:
- stop caring about such opinions (and being surprised when
getting some load of abusive speech in return)
- stop appealing to license/laws as the reason why you shouldn't
be hated
Neither of those annoys me. Obligation to be nice to someone
simply because of the licence compliance however does make me
angry.
I don't hold the view that the D community is more valuable
than the product/license. The community is valuable, but the
end product is more important and the community has to fully
back the license and not undermine it.
Nothing I have said is against the license or undermines it in
any way. You won't be ever sued for your actions. I won't even
kill your kitten because of that. Only thing that changes is my
personal attitude (which has nothing in common with "D
development team" attitude by the way). It only becomes
restriction if you chose to care.
This is the beauty of decentralized systems/societies - implicit
regulation without any formal rules.
I am not here to increase my self worth, though I don't mind an
educated argument or a role playing stunt, I am here to
increase the probability of having a programming language that
is better than the alternatives for server programming within a
few years. With the current situation it will take another
decade.
Sorry but I don't see you helping right now. NG debates don't
make any real differences - all D community members I respect
have some specific projects and/or contributions that make them
important. You can call that meritocratic and arrogant but I am
here for a similar reason - get a good language I can use
personally. Anything that does not get upstream is simply of no
value to me.
You appear to think that management == control. You come
through as a control freak, but I could be wrong.
You totally miss the point. For most time I ignore any kind of
centralized management at all. Instead I rely on being aware of
community "trends" to find opportunities for most pragmatical
contributions that benefit both me and someone else. This is
certain kind of implicit public contract - be nice and useful and
you will get that in returns. The fact that it is never specified
in any kind of licence or rule list does not mean it doesn't work
that way in practice.
For the D community to grow it has to play up to and appreciate
diversity and conflicting goals among the members. That means
you have to appreciate that people are participating for
reasons you don't share and have other goals than yourself.
Unless those goals seem to do more harm to _my_ goals than any
possible contributions can do good. Then escalating the conflict
is simply the most efficient outcome.
What you are saying is basically that you disagree with the
license, so maybe Walter should have spent more time making
sure that he had backing for it in the community, but that is
an issue you have to take up with him. Not me or ketmar.
You have a funny understanding of Boost/MIT license concept. It
is both funny and worrying in a sense that people seem to
misinterpret concept of personal freedoms in a similar way. There
is nothing in the license that forbids me to rage at you as much
as there is nothing that prevents you from increasing the
fragmentation.
I wonder if there actually exists the licence that requires any
user of the software to be polite with any other use of the
software. Could be fun but. Most likely to be legally negligible
though.