On 24/03/2016 09:16, Walter Bright wrote:
On 3/24/2016 1:41 AM, Mike Parker wrote:
I'm not knocking Vladimir's software. I ditched my newsreader some
time ago and
use the web interface exclusively now. Much more convenient. We can
debate the
usefulness of specific forum features that are out there in the wild
these days,
but the main issue is that the most basic features (like editing and
deleting
posts) are not practical when the central database belongs to the NNTP
server.
Ironically, I've used various "modern" forum software that didn't allow
post editing, either. Post editing has its downside, as well. Replies to
a post may no longer make sense if it was altered.
> One possibility is to have the forum software delay actually posting it
> for 5 minutes, and you can have second thoughts.
Post editing can also be restricted by a time limit in web forum
software. In any case, in a community like this, you'd expect that
nearly all edits would be minor edits, that would not change the meaning
of the original post, but just clarify it (or fix errors).
Alternatively, some software allows seeing the edit history of a post,
so there is always that as a fallback if someone where to edit
inappropriately. In particular Discourse supports that (which is the
forum software used by Rust, and also an alternative Go forum -
https://forum.golangbridge.org/ )
I'm not coming at this from a personal perspective, but from that of a
new D
user who wasn't necessarily around during the height of the newsgroup
craze.
More than once I've seen people post here looking for a way to edit or
delete
their posts. We recently had a suggestion her for a means of marking
threads as
important or useful. These are the sorts of thing that people *expect*
today,
whether everyone finds them beneficial or not. It's just one more
thing about
the D community that doesn't jibe with expectations, like the way the
web site
looked before the revamp. It's not a major issue in and of itself,
just an
annoyance and a lack of convenience, but taken together as a part of
the whole
it's one more point of complaint. One that could be easily resolved.
I've used a lot of other forum software on the web, and most of them
have maddening gaps in their feature set, and have the look/feel of
being written by dilettantes as their first project.
I don't care about how many crap web forum software is out there, I only
care about the good ones. The point of using modern forum software is
not to just *any* software out there that just happened to be written
recently.
In particular, have you tried Discourse?
For example, take a look at the comments for this article:
http://mynorthwest.com/813/2938339/Should-President-Obama-have-come-right-home-after-the-attacks-in-Brussels
Note the lack of tree threading, and the very low information density.
BTW, the distributed nature of NNTP I regard as a major asset. The
aggregate of the forum posts are an immense resource for D, and having
it in a central location in a proprietary format is pretty risky.
Discourse is free & open: http://www.discourse.org/ , so there are none
of those issues.
Also, the C++ illuminati communicate via a mailing list
(lists.isocpp.org), pretty much equivalent to NNTP. So does Linux. We
aren't really out of step with serious developers. Are they old codgers,
or are they on to something overlooked by others? Another thing I like
about this approach is that posts are restricted to text rather than
emoji and pictures and pretty styling - i.e. actual content.
Are they old codgers? Y...yes?
Let me rephrase that, are you really asking if the C++ community can be
taken *face-value* as example of modern practices? No, they can't. That
is not to say there aren't brilliant developers there, there sure are.
That isn't to say either that there aren't individual C++ coders who
understand modern practices quite well. But to take the ideology of the
community and C++ as examples of modern technology and practices...
hell, no.
But more importantly, you have to take legacy considerations into
account. There's massive history in the newsgroups, people are used to
it, people are used to their NNTP clients, people have workflows around
it, etc.
It's a very different question to ask if one should use NNTP or a forum
software for a *new* community, than to change an existing community to
a different forum system. And C++ is all about legacy, compatibility,
dinosaurs...
It's hard to find any actual content buried in all the noise:
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=112797.0
*sigh* You can't compare a forum community (and a forum software) for
essentially an *entertainment* hobby, to a forum community (and a forum
software) built for *technical*, *professional* discussion.
In particular there are no post signatures in Discourse (or they are
disabled in the Discourse forums I visit). There are emojis, though.💖
no threading,
Of all these, I agree (tree) threading can be an issue (see my OP).
However, ultimately if there are shortcomings in web forum software
these *can* be addressed, eventually.
But most shortcomings of NNTP are innate and cannot be addressed, not in
a proper way.
--
Bruno Medeiros
https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
