On Sunday, 18 June 2017 at 08:40:22 UTC, Mike B Johnson wrote:
Cool. Since we are friends now, I have some advice for you: I
suggest that if you want anyone to take you seriously, I
suggest you check your mediocrity mentality at the door.
See how that works?!?! Probably not. I suggest you get with the
program and stop assuming it's ok to waste peoples time,
including your own. The world would be a better place if people
like you stopped playing your little games and grow up. Then
people like me wouldn't have to constantly put you in your
place.
Mike, if people do not want to listen, simply accept that...
Going on a yelling tirade solves nothing.
I already concluded from this "discussion" that there is no point
trying to point out issues with D. Maybe too many people in the
past pointed out the same stuff and they are tired of it.
Whatever the issue is, simply move on. If they do not want to
attract new people or want to make it more easy, who are we to
talk about it ( as the same new people ).
There are good people in the D community but in some responses
you get the attitude like "how do you not know something so
simple". And i am not talking about this topic. There are
responses that borderline "how stupid are you". Maybe not in
those words but you can read it clearly.
Maybe because i got some of those responses that i also felt more
"inflammatory" in this topic by generalizing. But reading
comments like:
Perhaps _this_ is the right packaging for D right now, to keep
away the kinds of casual users who would not be suited for D.
It angers the hell out of me when people look down on other
developers because they do not have the right background or are
somehow considered less trying to deal with inadequacies in the D
ecosystem.
I am not targeting any person here but there are people here with
good intentions and people who to not realize how there responses
look down on people. Some do not understand that not everybody
has 10+ years in developing C/C++ programs and knows every
terminology and understands every aspect of the memory management
and the ins and out.
But there is no point fighting this attitude. Just use D for what
you need it or move to a different language. I am at this moment
contemplating moving my code base to different language for this
same reason.
My impression of D:
* The forums is a mixed bag of good intention people who give you
the answer you need. Some people who look down for asking a
stupid question. Some people who take criticism about D such a
personal level. And people who are simply rude, maybe there have
good intention but have short fuse ( i wonder who that is :) ).
* Git: I found the people who managed the code summations to D
GIT way more helpful and frankly very pleasant. I learned a lot
in a short amount of time despite being a total noob at this.
Frankly, sometimes i wish i NEVER discovered the forums because
seeing some of the discussions and reading the past discussions,
it feels like a darn pool of evil. Good, bad and just ugly. It
frankly demotivates...
And it has now **highly** opinionated my attitude about D, to the
point that makes me wonder. As a potential employer:
If i hire people with no D knowledge and they need to learn D.
They go to these forums and get sucked into this.
What about easy of learning, issues they may run into. It means
time i need to spend teaching new employees to avoid some of the
issues mentioned here ( and a lot of past topics that i found ).
I do not understand because on other language forums the
discussions are more civilized, there seem to be less looking
down on people. Maybe i use the Rust argument a bit too much but
to be good at Rust a good background is extreme helpful and yet,
i do not notice the same attitude with people ask stupid
questions or are not happy about something. I really, REALLY
think that some people have been living so long in a bubble, that
they do not understand how person some of there responses are and
how it affects future posting from new members.
There are a lot of other things... but it will sidetrack things
even more. Its already a wall of text by now.
But it really comes down in its most simple form: "Language good,
library can use some work but useful, standard documentation
disaster ( until you discover the library doc ), community mixed
bag, 3th party plugins again mixed bag ( some good, some bad,
some not maintained ), language future not 100% sure about where
it will end up".
And that is my personal and honest opinion...
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And please, do not quote my text piece by piece, ripping me a new
one for being inflammatory or whatever. Its how I from MY
perceptive see things. Just as you, the person reading this will
have there own opinion.
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As for me, i will be looking a bit more into other languages and
there communities. For a hobby project D is perfectly fine but as
a future employer my standard is much more ridge. I want to hire
people first with lower experience ( cheaper ) and let them learn
on the job. And well ... lets say that my impression has been a
mixed experience so far. Especially if this means exposing people
with maybe scripting language experience to a compile language
like D.
Maybe its time to tidy the ship because first impression count
for a lot.
I see nothing that i can add to this. I only wanted to respond
because the topic is getting way too heated and i hope this turns
it into a different direction with ALL parties looking back a bit
at what is being written.
/end wall of text. Now excuse me will i put time into different
and more productive things.
