On Wednesday, 22 November 2017 at 13:48:34 UTC, codephantom wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 November 2017 at 10:24:52 UTC, Indigo wrote:
I have been told by several that Australia is a good place to
go and I myself have thought about it. It seems that Australia
is probably a rather insulated society in that the rest of the
world could kill itself off and they'd be ok(probably a lot to
do with it it being so physically isolated and somewhat small.
Goods and people can't move as easily between it and the rest
so mentally the people are more independent minded and closer
knitted society). I've heard though that it is expensive to
live there and one it is difficult to stay.
Australia is not small. Who told you that?
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Australia
If you want to talk about small, consider the tiny land mass of
Indonesia just to our north - it has the 4th largest populated
country in the world (260+ million). That's more than 10 times
Australia's population, in such a small land mass. Needless to
say, that's something our defense forces are keanly aware of,
and constantly monitoring.
Wow, no need to get offended. I wasn't talking about land mass
but population size. It has about 25M people in a large
landmass... That means that persons/sqmi is pretty low. This
means you don't have a lot of people cooped up close to each
other that do not get along. So we pretty much agree. But you are
talking about land mass when I'm talking about people... and
without the people in the equation it is all relevant. People are
the problem, not land.
We are also close to the worlds busiest shipping lanes, and
goods travel very easily between us and the rest of the world.
We are the 23rd largest export economy in the world. In 2016,
we exported $159B and imported $181B. So we have a negative
trade balance actually, which makes us very vulnerable to
what's going on in the rest of the world. As long as China is
ok, we're ok. As long as U.S is ok, China is ok..and around
around it goes...we all rise together, and we all go down
together.
For the most part, yes, but if the shit hits the fan in the
world, you are much more insulated than most other 1st world
countries. That was my point. No need to try to defend your
position, I am not arguing against it and no need to try to
bolster Australia's image.
Australia is sort of like Texas, about the same about the same
population but 10 times larger. It is also far more insulated
than texas. One must travel by boat or plane to get to australia
but texas can be "invaded" by land in all directions reaching
almost across the planet(from the Chile to Alaska). Since it is
far cheaper and easier to go by land than sea or plane, it means
that the mobility of people flowing in to and out of texas is
much greater than Australia(it's basic vector calculus and
physics).
As far as goods and such, the same logic applies. It is much
cheaper to ship things by land than air or sea. You can't put
goods on a train and ship them to Australia... Trains are 10x
cheaper to use in America because we already have the railways
and it's just more efficient than truck or air. Since most goods
consumed in the US are produced in the US we don't have too look
externally for most common goods.
For example, most 3rd world countries have to import the goods we
take for granted(e.g., cheap electrical parts, books, computers,
luxury items, etc).
If you want a real estimation of just how isolated Australia is,
regardless of what you claim, here is a heat map of the trading
that really goes on in the world(more or less):
http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTWDRS/Resources/477365-1327525347307/8392086-1327528510568/WDR09_12_Ch06web.pdf
or if you don't wanna believe that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freight_transport
Again, I'm not saying Australia is a hole in the wall.. but it is
relatively isolated from many factors. If, say, a deadly plague
started sweeping across the US and can spread very quickly,
Australia is in a good position to be one of the least effected
places, assuming they can shut down the airports quick enough. It
would be nearly impossible for the US to control. The same
applies to anything like an economic collapse. All this is
precisely because of it's isolation by water. If all continents
were connection then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
You might not think it is much of a thing but in certain
circumstances it could mean the difference between life and
death. In other cases it still is a factor but depends on the
context to know exactly how much.
Since I don't follow Australian news, politics, or culture you
know more about those specifics than I do. I do live in the US so
I know more about it than you. The US is not doing good... that
is an undeniable fact. One can pick and choose their metric to
weasel away from the truth but as a whole the US has some very
deep and serious problems that are only getting worse(there is
virtually no real work done on making this country great. It's
all more about "position playing". Many adults here have the
mentalities of children and never grow out of it. They are
irresponsible, selfish, hateful, shortsighted, etc. One can say
this about humans in general, but one wouldn't expect this from
the "greatest" nation on the planet.
But, it's very similar to out many rich kids end up turning out
to be pathetic people. Greed and wealth generally don't go well
together and create major problems.
https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/aus/
I wouldn't say we are a close knitted society. We are a country
built on immigration, and it's very diverse here. But we do
share (we'll most of us anyway) certain values that help bind
us together - which is not easy when your population is so
diverse, or when you have increasing numbers of people coming
in, with the completely opposite values. This is our biggest
threat I think (i.e. internal stability, not external threats).
External threats are easily deterred when you have friends like
the U.S.
There is a huge difference. It might not seem like a lot but
America is on the verge of collapse from all it's problems(this
doesn't mean tomorrow but within a few decades). Australia is
not. In 100 years, you might be where America is, but as far as I
know Australia is in pretty good shape compared to the major
players in the world. I'm not sure about China... it could be in
good shape too but I figure with so many people that the problems
surely must be amplified. Most of the other countries are so
corrupt that there is no hope for peaceful change.
But we are very independent minded, that much you got correct
;-)
I'm sure I got much more correct, you read in some things that
you wanted(e.g., comparing area when I was talking about people).
I am not claiming to be exact in what I say, but the principles
and facts are general enough to state a valid point. Australia
will recover faster and better than America if America collapses.
It will also recover better than many other countries. It might
be worse off than some completely isolated 3rd world country but
I imagine it would be relatively immune to it. If America
collapses tomorrow, many Americans will die over the course of a
few weeks(10's if not 100's of millions). The anarchy and hate
that exists will feed the fire. I don't see this happening in
Australia, but I could be wrong. You simply don't have the
problems that we have.
Now, The thing about America and the government is that they will
kick the can down the road as much as they can so it puts off
things until a final bang. This is because no one excepts
responsibility for their actions nor are held accountable, except
slaps on a wrist. It's been this way for decades and is now just
starting to play out. Australia is exactly like this but it's not
been going on as long and is a lot less amplified(less
population, less cultural issues, less greed, less poverty, etc).
So, ultimately the point is simple, regardless of the exact
numbers: Moving to the US is riskier. If someone plans on
settling down then they should be aware of the potential of
living in hell in the future. If someone is staying temporarily
to make cash, then it could be a good thing. If it were me, I'd
choose Australia over the US given the same standard of living. I
think one would be happier and more productive. Not bombarded by
the insanity of most Americans on a daily basis. At the end of
the day happiness is all that matters and is meaningful...
Unfortunately to be happy and be around other people, those
people have to be happy too... and America is an extremely
unhappy place(as a whole, sure some individuals are extremely
happy)... just look at the news or you tube to see all the
unhappiness. It's always easy for am imbecile to ignore what
happens to their fellow man... but when it happens to them they
wonder why... but it's precisely because they ignored their
fellow brother being abused and probably contributed to it in
some way(if you are not helping you are hurting).
Again, you can do your own research. When someone says "America
is great, I have a great live as an America" and then half the
country is in turmoil(even if it's just 1/10, still far too
many), something doesn't add up. When one takes in to account the
trend, it's not hard to conclude what the most likely outcome is.
