On 02/10/2010 17:21, Don wrote:
retard wrote:
Fri, 01 Oct 2010 14:53:04 +0100, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
On 20/08/2010 22:37, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
"retard"<r...@tard.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:i4mrss$ca...@digitalmars.com...
Fri, 20 Aug 2010 19:04:41 +0200, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
What are these Java programs for the desktop that run fast? I haven't
encountered any, but maybe that's just because I didn't try them all
out. Eclipse takes at least 20 seconds to load on startup on my quad
core, that's not very fast. On the other hand, CodeBlocks which is
coded in C++ and has a few dozen plugins installed runs in an
instant.
Now that's a fair comparison! "Crysis runs so slowly but a hello world
written in Go is SO fast. This must prove that Go is much faster than
C+ +!"
I think CodeBlocks is one of the most lightweight IDEs out there. Does
it even have full semantic autocompletion? Eclipse, on the other hand,
comes with almost everything you can imagine. If you turn off the
syntax check, Eclipse works just as fast as any native application on
a modern desktop.
I've tried eclipse with the fancy stuff off, and it's still slower than
C::B or PN2 for me.
All these comments about Eclipse takes this time to load, or Eclipse is
slow when used, etc., are really meaningless unless you tell us
something about what actual plugins and features are installed and used.
Unlike CodeBlocks which is "a free C++ IDE", Eclipse proper is the
Eclipse Platform, which is a platform (duh) and doesn't do anything
useful by itself. Particularly since there is not even a standard/single
"Eclipse" download: http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/ , unlike
Codeblocks. The days were JDT would be the main thing 95% of Eclipse
users would use are long gone.
So are you using JDT, CDT, Descent, something else? If JDT, do you have
extra tools, like the J2EE Web Tools? (these add massive bloat) What
about source control plugins, or plugins not provided by the Eclipse
Foundation, etc? All of these are a wildcard that can affect
performance. For example, I definitely note that sometimes my workspace
chokes when I do certain SVN or file related operations (with Subclipse
btw, not Subversive).
I also noted, when Eclipse 3.6 came out, some sluggishness when working
with JDT, even when just typing code (in this case it was very subtle,
almost imperceptible, but I still felt it and it was quite annoying). I
suspected not JDT, but Mylyn, so I uninstalled it, and now things are
back to normal. (there might be a fix or workaround for that issue in
Mylyn, but since I don't use it, I didn't bother)
I would definitely be quite annoying if Eclipse was not responsive for
the vast majority of coding tasks.
As for startup time, I hardly care anything about that :
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/
Re_Eclipse_startup_time_Was_questions_on_PhanTango_merger_was_Merging_Tangobos_into_Tango_60160.html#N60346
(except when I'm doing PDE development, but that's a different thing)
Back then the unhappy user was using a 1 GHz Pentium M notebook. I
tried this again. Guess what, the latest Eclipse Helios (3.6.1) took
3.5 (!!!) seconds to start up the whole Java workspace, open few
projects and fully initialize the editors etc for the most active
project.
That's good news. Sounds as though they've fixed the startup performance
bug.
Not necessarily. Again, you need to consider what is installed and
loading in Eclipse. In retard's scenario he was loading a Java workspace
(JDT) whereas your original post was a C++ one (with CDT, I'm guessing).
Even disregarding the PC specs, it's comparing apples to oranges.
Eclipse is not like Firefox where the main platform is 90% of the
code/functionality, and the plugins are only like 5-10%.
Has the original
complainer ever used Photoshop, CorelDraw, AutoCad, Maya/3DSMax, Maple/
MathCad/Mathematica, or some other Real World Programs (tm)? These are
all fucking slow. That's how it is: If you need to get the job done,
you must use slow programs.
That original poster was me. Yes, I've used all of those programs
(though not a recent version of CorelDraw). The startup time was 80
seconds, on the most most minimal standard Eclipse setup I could find.
MSVC was 3 seconds on the same system. I had expected the times to be
roughly comparable.
There was just something sloppy in Eclipse's startup code.
Any Eclipse IDE configuration/distribution is likely never going to
start fast, at least as fast as comparable native IDEs like MS Visual
Studio.
Still, I do think that 80 seconds sounds excessive, even for those
computer specs. But it's likely a CDT issue, not an Eclipse one. Again,
this distinction has to be considered, you can't just say "There was
just something sloppy in Eclipse's startup code" or "Eclipse developers
don't care about performance issues _at all_". The projects that come
bundled in offical Eclipse distributions are not only separate projects
(JDT, CDT, WTP, PDT, Mylyn, etc.), like I mentioned in my original post,
but they are made by completely separate teams, most of them from
different companies (even for the more popular Eclipse projects).
--
Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer
