On 25 November 2010 01:15, Iain Buclaw <[email protected]> wrote: > == Quote from Emil Madsen ([email protected])'s article > > --90e6ba539f3ee121840495d5033f > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On 25 November 2010 00:25, Walter Bright <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Emil Madsen wrote: > > > > > >> And yea, bearophile brings up a lot of nice features, and Walter would > > >> never have a chance to implement all of them himself, which might be > good, > > >> if everything bearophile suggests got into the language, we would have > this > > >> major language noone would ever be able to learn, nor use. However, if > we > > >> succeed in implementing the best ideas I do think we'll end up with a > superb > > >> output, however I do think we need to discuss a lot of issues and > features, > > >> and thats why I love bearophiles postings, simply because it gives the > > >> community a lot to discuss. > > >> > > >> Just my opinion. - But I do think discussing a lot of features, even > the > > >> ones not really related, will help out the language in the end. > > >> > > > > > > I think bearophile does a valuable service to us by bringing up > discussion > > > topics. > > > > > > My gripe is when he lists things that he wishes D did when D already > does > > > them and has for years. Case in point: D imports. It's irksome when he > often > > > writes from the perspective of assuming that D does it wrong while > other > > > languages are assumed to do it right. Case in point: design by > contract, and > > > his assumption that dmd was a primitive compiler that did not do data > flow > > > analysis while praising llvm's. > > > > > > My concern about that is that with the volume of his posts, I will miss > > > some of them, and people inexperienced with D will presume those > mistakes > > > and misunderstandings are correct. > > > > > > I have no issue at all with bringing up factual shortcomings of D, even > > > when I disagree about whether they are actual shortcomings or not. For > > > example, it is a fact that D does not check for integer arithmetic > overflow. > > > Whether that's a problem or not is a fine topic for discussion. > > > > > Well I must agree with you, atleast on the part, about how he sometimes > > seems negative about what dmd does. - And that tune, is obviously not > nice > > towards you, as your the one doing the hard work, but lets just try to > > remember, that bearophile just wants D to be the best, eh? > > What really is an issue for me currently, is that the mailing list seems > > like its going a tad into war, that is between you and bearophile > sometimes; > > wheres you should instead be joining forces. - As it seems to me, D got > > about the best compiler writer out there, and one of the best feature > > requester/discusser :). > > And I can understand you concerns, about how newcomers to D, might react > > reading about all of these things bearophile complains about, and wants > to > > change/add. > > - Just curious, how much of your time do you spend on reading this > mailing > > list a day? > > (Excuse my somewhat bad english tonight (its 3am)) > > He's started peeking an interest at GDC too, which was both amusing and > heartening > to see. I don't honestly think any of his comments can really be seen as > complaints. As has already been echoed, most are very informative, he > always seems > to pick up on things you don't commonly think about. Then again, I can see > it can > get a bit tiring how he almost always starts off with "Language/Compiler > <Y> does > <Feature X>", then goes on to explain that yours doesn't. This is where I > see > myself going terse over things very quickly. > > I think you wrongly see things as war-like. It's all really just healthy > discussion and competition. >
Sure it can get tiring when hes like saying 'Language/Compiler <Y> does<Feature X>', but while he does so, he also brings up a discussion whether its something to add or not. - And I must say, a lot of the features he points out in other language seem like good things :) - however pointing it out, and being like; 'Why doesn't D do this?', might not be the right tune, where it should be; 'Would it be an idea if D did this?', and I can understand why the first tune might seem a tad hard on people like Walter, when it already does. About GDC, I think the dmd community should be watching whats happening at LDC and GDC, they might come up with something good, before we do, eh? I might be right about the way thing, its just, sometimes people seem a little bit hostile if you ask me, but that might just me me thats a tad off. -- // Yours sincerely // Emil 'Skeen' Madsen
