On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 15:55:48 -0500, Michel Fortin
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 2011-01-15 15:20:08 -0500, "Steven Schveighoffer"
<[email protected]> said:
I'm not suggesting we impose it, just that we make it the default. If
you want to iterate by dchar, wchar, or char, just write:
foreach (dchar c; "exposé") {}
foreach (wchar c; "exposé") {}
foreach (char c; "exposé") {}
// or
foreach (dchar c; "exposé".by!dchar()) {}
foreach (wchar c; "exposé".by!wchar()) {}
foreach (char c; "exposé".by!char()) {}
and it'll work. But the default would be a slice containing the
grapheme, because this is the right way to represent a Unicode
character.
I think this is a good idea. I previously was nervous about it, but
I'm not sure it makes a huge difference. Returning a char[] is
certainly less work than normalizing a grapheme into one or more code
points, and then returning them. All that it takes is to detect all
the code points within the grapheme. Normalization can be done if
needed, but would probably have to output another char[], since a
normalized grapheme can occupy more than one dchar.
I'm glad we agree on that now.
It's a matter of me slowly wrapping my brain around unicode and how it's
used. It seems like it's a typical committee defined standard where there
are 10 ways to do everything, I was trying to weed out the lesser used (or
so I perceived) pieces to allow a more implementable library. It's doubly
hard for me since I have limited experience with other languages, and I've
never tried to write them with a computer (my language classes in high
school were back in the days of actually writing stuff down on paper).
I once told a colleague who was on a standards committee that their
proposed KLV standard (key length value) was ridiculous. The wise
committee had decided that in order to avoid future issues, the length
would be encoded as a single byte if < 128, or 128 + length of the length
field for anything higher. This means you could potentially have to parse
and process a 127-byte integer!
What if I modified my proposed string_t type to return T[] as its
element type, as you say, and string literals are typed as
string_t!(whatever)? In addition, the restrictions I imposed on
slicing a code point actually get imposed on slicing a grapheme. That
is, it is illegal to substring a string_t in a way that slices through
a grapheme (and by deduction, a code point)?
I'm not opposed to that on principle. I'm a little uneasy about having
so many types representing a string however. Some other raw comments:
I agree that things would be more coherent if char[], wchar[], and
dchar[] behaved like other arrays, but I can't really see a
justification for those types to be in the language if there's nothing
special about them (why not a library type?).
I would not be opposed to getting rid of those types. But I am very
opposed to char[] not being an array. If you want a string to be
something other than an array, make it have a different syntax. We also
have to consider C compatibility.
However, we are in radical-change mode then, and this is probably pushed
to D3 ;) If we can find some way to fix the situation without
invalidating TDPL, we should strive for that first IMO.
If strings and arrays of code units are distinct, slicing in the middle
of a grapheme or in the middle of a code point could throw an error, but
for performance reasons it should probably check for that only when
array bounds checking is turned on (that would require compiler support
however).
Not really, it could use assert, but that throws an assert error instead
of a RangeError. Of course, both are errors and will abort the program.
I do wish there was a version(noboundscheck) to do this kind of stuff
with...
Actually, we would need a grapheme to be its own type, because
comparing two char[]'s that don't contain equivalent bits and having
them be equal, violates the expectation that char[] is an array.
So the string_t!char would return a grapheme_t!char (names to be
discussed) as its element type.
Or you could make a grapheme a string_t. ;-)
I'm a little uneasy having a range return itself as its element type. For
all intents and purposes, a grapheme is a string of one 'element', so it
could potentially be a string_t.
It does seem daunting to have so many types, but at the same time, types
convey relationships at compile time that can make coding impossible to
get wrong, or make things actually possible when having a single type
doesn't.
I'll give you an example from a previous life:
Tango had a type called DateTime. This type represented *either* a point
in time, or a span of time (depending on how you used it). But I proposed
we switch to two distinct types, one for a point in time, one for a span
of time. It was argued that both were so similar, why couldn't we just
keep one type? The answer is simple -- having them be separate types
allows me to express relationships that the compiler enforces. For
example, you can add two time spans together, but you can't add two points
in time together. Or maybe you want a function to accept a time span
(like a sleep operation). If there was only one type, then
sleep(DateTime.now()) compiles and sleeps for what, 2011 years? ;)
I feel that making extra types when the relationship between them is
important is worth the possible repetition of functionality. Catching
bugs during compilation is soooo much better than experiencing them during
runtime.
-Steve
