Just noticed that Microsoft is planning to start using C# for
systems programming as well
https://careers.microsoft.com/jobdetails.aspx?jid=76831
Who knows what they are planning to do...
On Saturday, 21 April 2012 at 00:09:24 UTC, Alex Rønne Petersen
wrote:
On 20-04-2012 15:16, Paulo Pinto wrote:
Actually when I read Singularity papers I keep thinking to
myself that D
could
be Sing#. In the sense that both share many common features.
Thanks for the xomb link.
--
Paulo
"Alex Rønne Petersen" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On 20-04-2012 08:43, Paulo Pinto wrote:
Well, C# can also be real systems programming language, see
Singularity.
No, this is actually a common misconception.
Singularity does *not* use plain C#. It uses Sing#, which is an
extension of Spec# adding message-passing, compile-time
reflection, and
safe manual memory management features. Spec# is a version of
C# heavily
based on design-by-contract (I'd argue its DbC is far superior
to D's in
fact).
Plain C# out of the box is not useful for systems-level
programming, and
especially not in a kernel.
And native code compilers are also available (Bartok, Mono
AOT, NGEN).
D names itself a system programming language, but I am yet to
see any OS
coded on it. Without system programming examples, it becomes
just another
application level language.
https://github.com/xomboverlord/xomb
On the other hand I confess this is a very hard task, as most
of systems
programming
languages that manage to exist as such (PL/I, Ada, C, C++,
Mac Pascal),
did so because
there was an OS vendor that made use of them.
Now that I mention this, does anyone know if D is being used
as research
language in any operating system department in some
university? I
remember
there were some posts about it long time ago.
What I see going for D in terms of language features:
- scope
- compile time metaprogramming
- mixin as a kind of macro mechanism
- inline assembler (this one might be a bit debatable)
- delegation via subtyping
- all available implementations compile straight to native
code
--
Paulo
"Nick Sabalausky" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
"Paulo Pinto" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Hi,
just wanted to announce that Sony has finally made the new
Playstation
Vita SDK available, as we were discussing some months ago.
http://www.playstation.com/pss/index_e.html
The gamming industry seems to be slowing moving to C#. Would
we still
be able to convince developers to move to D instead?
Yes. I suspect that the movement to C# is somewhat of a
compromise due to
the fact that C/C++ has been the *only* real systems language
usable for
most gaming systems. Obviously, something better than C++ is
needed, and
thanks to the moronic VM/interpreted obsessions from the last
decade
or so
that rendered most new languages impotent, there was no real
alternative to
C++. So, I suspect, that's why they made the compromise of
going with C#.
But D is *real* systems language, unlike C#. And frankly, it
beats the
snot
out of C#. I'm not just saying that subjectively as D fan:
Five years ago
(if not less) I considered C# and D tied as my favorite
languages. But
the
more I used both, the more I got fed up with C#'s dumb
limitations and
MS's
disinterest in addressing them, and the more I liked D.
If D can't be made to attract game devs away from C++/C#,
then I'll loose
what little faith I have left in mainstream games development.
There's no doubt that D gets very close to being able to
replace Sing#. The thing is just that Sing# was designed, from
day one, to be OS-agnostic, i.e. compile to plain machine code,
and to only rely on the very small HAL in Singularity.
