Skip,

Anyone attempting to connect to a PMBO is really no different than any other
ham calling CQ in the hopes of receiving a reply, except that in the case of
having a PMBO potentially on frequency it is more likely that a contact can
be made. It is dramatically more efficient than any other third party
traffic.

As far as your suggestions on scanning, are you suggesting that each PMBO
have only one frequency and then to make up for the need to have many
different frequencies available to meet the constantly varying propagation
conditions, you would need to have many more PMBO systems in operation?

My main concern is emergency communications planning and deployment so I do
have a bias toward that end and I hope that most hams who want to see
amateur radio survive also have a similar "bias."

One of the things that I have tried to promote to the WL2K controller has
been to increase the number of HF PMBO stations. (And for that matter the
vhf/uhf only PMBO's as well). Especially for the lower bands 80 and maybe
even 160, which will not tend to cause interference during daylight hours
since signals do not travel as far and those bands are very lightly used.
These new PMBO's could use the new SCAMP mode to eventually replace much or
hopefully all of the Pactor modes someday.

If you had an HF PMBO at least every 100 miles or so, they could handle
traffic without requiring the use of the higher frequencies and that would
free up those longer range frequencies for blue water and emergency traffic
folks.

Since Winlink 2000 is administered by one person for the entire worldwide
system, they have indicated they do not have the ability to add many
additional stations.

Because WL2K is a proprietary system, they do not want any redundant system
to "compete" with their system, even though it would be far better for the
amateur community, and for emergency communications, to have many such
systems in place that are not directly connected to each other. If one WL2K
system failed, you would have other options. And yes, the chance of this
happening needs to be placed in the calculus of emergency planning.

By the way, I did not see any retraction of your claim that the WL2K had
been infected by a virus, when in fact it had not. We need to keep a
balanced perspective on what is or is not real. Because of such emotional
views on this subject it seems that each side overstates the facts so that
those of us in the middle have to try and figure out what is really true.

Maybe that is normal politics, but I would hope that more discussion could
center around practical solutions to ham radio's major reason for its
existence ... emergency communications. And perhaps even more importantly,
if you don't have those systems in place and used daily, contrary to what
some people believe, they won't be there when you need them the most.

73,

Rick, KV9U




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Skip Teller
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 8:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [digitalradio] RE: Winlink Scanning



> >>>By distributing callers across multiple scanned frequencies, the
> incidence of multiple callers colliding on a single frequency is
> reduced. Such collisions prevent the PMBO from connecting with any
> of the competing callers, increasing time-from-request-to-
> connection. If the callers cannot hear each other, then they don't
> know to back off and the collision is extended in time -- further
> increasing time-from-request-to-connection for all callers.

If the PMBO is busy passing traffic on another frequency, he is not
scanning, so the really
significant delay in time-from-request-to-connection is always waiting for
him to finish
passing traffic and resume scanning.

Once he resumes scanning, he is going to connect with the strongest caller
that he can
hear, even if there are multiple callers. The only way he would be unable to
connect is if
all callers were at the same strength AND timing. So, using scanning has a
negligible
improvement in the time-from-request-to-connection, and that would only
apply to ONE of the
multiple callers - the one that was successful. For the others, that time
might be
infinite.
>
>
> > Because the PMBO stations are not allowed to broadcast, the client
> MUST call a specific PMBO. If he does that on any of the alternate
> frequencies of the PMBO, he cannot connect until the PMBO is
> finished passing traffic on the frequency being used. The client
> station may transmit continusouly for a connect, but he will not
> achieve one until the PMBO finishes passing traffic and starts
> scanning again and picks up the client station's transmission.
>
>
> > The result of the scanning is that the Winlink client station
> is "holding the frequency" for his own use and nobody can use it or
> capture it while he is doing that.
>
> >>>If callers (which are always attended) refrain from initiating a
> request on a frequency that is already busy or becomes busy after an
> unsuccessful request, then the caller is not guilty of holding the
> frequency. As I mentioned in my previous post, the problem is that a
> Winlink-on-Pactor PMBO has no busy detector, and thus threatens QSOs
> on any of its scanning frequencies with hidden-transmitter QRM.
> Knowledgable operators wishing a QRM-free QSO would therefore tend
> to avoid any frequency scanned by a Winlink-on-Pactor PMBO. Is a
> PMBO "holding" its scanning frequencies? Legally, no; pragmatically,
> yes. 14076.9 may currently be clear, but there's no way I'll call CQ
> there.

With scanning, the caller is holding the frequency whether or not he is
"guilty" of doing
so, which would only be the case if he were aware that the PMBO was busy and
he kept
calling. He may not be "guilty" of holding the frequency, but he is
accidentally holding
the frequency nevertheless, because he thinks it is clear and the PMBO is
listening for a
connect, when, in reality, that is not true. The PBMO is not listening (on
the alternate
frequency) for a connect. Eliminating scanning eliminates this problem.

The hidden-transmitter problem is certainly real, but ONLY after the PMBO
has been
triggered to transmit. In practice, the MAJORITY of QRM, as you can easily
observe on the
waterfall, is not the hidden-transmitter, but the client stations
transmitting, breaking up
the QSO, waiting for a while, and doing the same thing over again. If they
do trigger a
PMBO to transmit, then the QRM generally becomes much worse, as can also be
seen on the
waterfall.

If there were no scanning, then the calling client station would not be
repeatedly calling
on the alternate frequency, even if he could not detect weaker activity on
the frequency,
because he would be monitoring the same frequency the PMBO he wishes to
contact is
currently using. In fact, HALF of all the Winlink advertises frequencies
would NEVER be
used by Winlink if there were no scanning, unless the number of PMBO's
doubled and scanning
was eliminated. If half of the frequencies currently advertised by Winlink
were eliminated
from their system, then half of the PMBO's could be reassigned to the
vacated frequencies,
leaving a large block of frequencies available for everyone else to use
without fear of a
PMBO station popping up on top of their QSO like they do now.

So, the real fair solution to the problem is:

1. Eliminate scanning.

2. Reassign PMBO to frequencies in a contiguous block, with a geographical
separation of
PMBO's on alternate frequencies, as much as possible, to lessen the chance
of adjacent
channel interference.

This keeps the Winlink traffic handling capacity the same, frees up space
for others to
use, and eliminates the QRM to others by PMBO stations. The
time-from-request-to-connection
would not be noticeably different, if there is any at all.

73, Skip KH6TY




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