I'm just full of comments today. Hi Hi. Ya'll see below. Walt/K5YFW
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 1:48 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [digitalradio] Re: The Internet is Unreliable for Amateur RadioService Emergency Communications [WinLink 2000 stuff rejected.] The 6M 'failure' was an attempt to say the flare was 'really bad' and somehow also impaired low band TV and the 47.42MHz, the Red Cross VHF channel. And BPL can wipe out the Red Cross also. How long will a really bad flare last? I remember one that was suppose to have taken down a grid in Canada...I think that was back in the mid-1980's. Then there was one last summer during Hurricane Katrina but it wasn't all that bad and didn't last that long. We just lost HF comm for a few hours running 100 watts... another nearby station running 1500 watts was getting through Ok. You've hit on a number of solutions and a number of problems. That's what these sorts of exercise are good for. I'll Roger that. This was a solar flare but it could have been an 'out of atmosphere nuke EMP blast'. In that exercise, North Korea fires a nuke towards Seattle and detonates it before it could be intercepted. Hummmmmmmm, wellllll, I've been in this discussion since the summer of 1965 within the U.S. government. It is said that a small nuke 30 miles above the central U.S. would have EMP effect on the entire CONUS. AND, there are testing EMP effects out in New Mexico. Truly it does affect some/much electronics...especially that which is "on" during the EMP event. But there is much evidence that very little amount of proper grounding and shielding can protect electronic equipment against the effects of EMP. While there would be no radiation or blast damage, the EMP could be devastating to the region. Impacted are not just the city but ships at sea, Aircraft, etc. So "everyone" says...but I'm not sure that test, as are being done in New Mexico are conclusive. Amateur radio has one very useful feature. We can think and experiment more easily than others. We do it for fun. We can think up situations and solutions. We can build systems to handle expected threats and we can have and idea what to do if something unusual happens. When we do this, we shouldn't limit our thinking to just radio. We have a deep wealth of technical knowledge that can be tapped when needed. WOW!!! the quote of the year. VERY GOOD. Many Amateur Ops are still getting their disaster training or haven't had any yet. Those people tend to see everything as one big terrorist attack and can't dissect the problem and see its component parts. Once they get some training, they tend to see the error of their ways. (If not, that Radio Rambo is gently sidelined.) I have generally been involved with weather related events where communications became the problem. Of course I did spend 3+ months in the "Big Sandbox" in the fall and winter of 1990. I lived and breathed (and tried to sleep) always with HF communications on my mind. I even was awakened by a "radio call" on HF from my net control station. I listened to message traffic (voice and MIL-STD-188-110A/B) 8-16 hours a day the entire 3+ months. I guess though I could use some more training. Then you have just the usual volunteer inertia. We know it would be great to have many Telpac Nodes, Packet networks, and linked repeaters all with hardened emergency power, etc. But it takes money and time and in many areas the number of truly active volunteers is limited. Just look at how few have SCS PactorIII modems. Even on packet, someone or some club has to fund these networks. In many places its nearly a full time job just to keep the club repeater and remotes on-line. When I walked into the "Big Sandbox", there was nothing...no communications infrastructure that we could use. After Katrina in Louisiana around where Katrina came ashore there was virtually no communications infrastructure. You cannot count on using any existing communications infrastructure...Oh yes, some or much of it may be undamaged and working...but overloaded. I believe that the greatest asset that amateur radio operators have is the ability to pick up some or most of your station and take it somewhere else and set up and operate. This is the real problem that needs our immediate attention. We need lots of tools in our tool box. Charlie Crizer , KF4MNE Cell 202-210-6346 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Winlink2000/Airmail Disaster Services - Communications (Northern VA) Disaster Action Team Lead (Fairfax County South) American Red Cross of the National Capital Area -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KV9U Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 13:39 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: The Internet is Unreliable for Amateur RadioService Emergency Communications Charlie, I am assuming you really mean Winlink 2000 which is completely different than the older Winlink system that was strictly an RF only system that did not use the internet? Your hypothetical scenario is a very real possibility and has happened to us on occasion with our traffic nets being taken out by a solar flare. Since the leadership in our Section has decided to move digital to Winlink 2000 in the mistaken belief that this the "only" approved digital network supported by ARRL, VHF packet is no longer a useful option for very long distances here. There is almost no interest in HF digital either. Partly because very few hams even care to operate modes other than CW and SSB, and partly because of the trend toward Technician class hams with no HF operating priveleges. Why would you consider a solar storm as shutting out 6 meter SSB and for that matter any other line of sight modes? It seems to me that 6 meter SSB (and higher) could be a useful method of sending point to point messages, particularly if you had an ARQ mode. If you could operate HF digital, then you would still have ground wave. In fact, a recent proposal by ARRL has resulted in an STA for operation on 500 KHz here in the U.S. This band, although very noisy, also has superior ground wave abilities. Antennas are a difficult issue, but shortened verticals would seem to be the right approach to avoid NVIS operations which could be rendered inoperative during a serious enough solar CME. While I agree you need to have more than one tool in the toolbox, we must not accept that every tool is equal. Some are more vulnearble than others to interruptions. 73, Rick, KV9U Charles Crizer wrote: >We are a backup service mostly but we could play a larger roll. That is up >to the localities involved. > >Internet usage in amateur circles, such as Winlink is valid as long as it >works. Any technology is viable as long as it works. We shouldn't condemn >something just because it 'might' not work sometimes. Sure a voice link may >be faster and easier but the served agency may prefer a digital solution for >archival purposes. If that is was they want we should see if we can build >it. > >But I'll pose this problem. A sever solar storm that completely shuts out HF >- 6M SSB. Nails the power grid across the country and knocks out or degrades >commercial satellite use. > >Within 6 hours we start loosing cell sites and within 12-72 hours central >offices start dropping out if not already knocked offline. Some secondary >damage to bridges knock out major fiber links between cities. > >Now what? > >We'll have to adjust our methods to the situation. Some areas may have a >Packet network that can handle traffic hundreds of miles. Some don't and >will put it together. Others will use PSK31, Pactor, or CW. (Or any mode >that can punch through. I don't know if PSK31 would or not.) > >Do we really want to limit what we can do because it sometimes might not >work sometimes? Of course not, lets keep putting things into our tool box. > > >Charlie Crizer, KF4MNE >Fairfax County (Alexandria) Virginia, US >QTH: 38-47.96N / 77-05.17W - FM18kt >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Winlink2000/Airmail > > > > Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! 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