But that still doesn't preclude amateur radio operators from have a place to store compiled applications for their distro.
There would of course have to be as many major directories as Linux distros and sub directoried for the various releases of the distro. if the amateur radio application needed recompiled for the various releases. But then again, who would provide the repository? I would hope that someday the ARRL would do this...but perhaps that's too much of a dream. Walt/K5YFW Leigh L Klotz, Jr. wrote: > This is just what package managers do. > There are two main package managers: Debainls deb format and Red Hat's > RPM. > > Debian historically did a better job on resolving dependencies at > installation time (as opppsed to just reporting them), but part of that > ability was due to Debian have a good repository infrastructure into > which packages are placed and with which the dependencies can be > satisfied. > > It isn't really true that Debian has one repository, but they do have > one structure, and the divisions in them are multi-year long releases, > the status (stable, testing, etc.), and the license status (essentially > fully GPL or not). I am not a Debian expert so I may be shakey in this > area. But the point is you install and make choices, and can satisfy > dependencies through an integrated system. > > In RPM (used by Red Hat/Fedora SuSE, Mandrake, and a few others), there > was no repository structure integrated into RPM, no "root" repository, > and no way even for multiple repositories to be integrated. Part of the > reason the fragmentation was that Red Hat monetized the updates so > making it work without their for-pay service wasn't in their interest. > So with zred Hat you bought or downloaded their release ISO images and > updated wholesale. When the pace of security fixes began to require > something better, RedHat introduced a for-pay update service, limited to > RedHat. It put the dependency calculation on their servers, just to > make sure you paid for it. > > SuSE was no better in their pre-Novell days. They had no downloadable > ISO images at all, and copyrighted their installer, so it was > effectively impossible to get SuSE without paying for it. They did > offer their individual RPM files for download, but mnoetized the > installer. After Novell acquired them, that block went away. But there > is still a separate set of RPMs for SuSE. > > A couple of other companies tried to get into the updater business, and > they made variant versions of systems such as Gnome (or, the main > version and everyone else was variant, dependong on whom you ask). > Unfortunately, once you hopped on that train, you could never get off as > there were version conflicts deep down, and the whole thing faltered. > > Aound the time Fedora split off, the Yum system came about (it grew out > of a port of Red Hat to the PowerPC Mac which of necessity needed its > own universe), and it allowed integration on the client of multiple > repository sources. Yum offered the ability to install and update from > the repositories listed. Fedora recently managed to consolidate an > external package repository, and they seem to be trying to grapple with > this problem, but with Yum they at least have a way ot combining them at > the client. > > Unfortunately, since there is no authoritative source for the RPM > packaged version of some library (cross-indexed with a release and > status as with Debian), there is no single set of compile-time options > in use. As en example, until recently, Fedora users couldn't install > W1HKJ's fldigi with the default fltk RPM file on which it depends > because Dave's coded needed the --with-threads option required in fltk > at compile time. > > The job of a Linux distribution is to pick in time a set of package > versions and instances of them compiled with flags, and make sure (QA) > that they work together. RedHat paid people to do this. Debian threw > together a tree of "latest" and encourged people to file & fix > dependency problems. Neither model scaled well. Recently, the Debian > and Red Hat worlds got closer, as Debian has downstream providers such > as Ubuntu, who pay people to do more testing, integration, and tuning, > and more like SuSE with lots of attention to the installer. > RedHat/Fedora became more like Debian by relying more on a dedicated > (but increasingly disenchanted) community to do testing of frequent > releases. > > So, the upshot of all this is that both Debian's format and the RPM/Yum > system do a good job of capturing dependencies and providing an > environment to resolve them in, but neither can work without people > compiling nd cross-testing the packages that they put into their > respective repositories. With Debian, the path upstream is a little > clearer so it is a little easiser to figure out where to put things, but > the "download this from a website and install the package" option is > much harder (partially because they don't want you to do that -- put it > in the repository instead). > > All this being said, there is something called "alien" which will > convert from .deb to .rpm format, but that doesn't at all take into > account that the packages and packagings and patches in the two systems > (deb's in a system, rpm's is a federation) don't align. > > 73, > Leigh/WA5ZNU > > On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 6:28 am, KV9U wrote: > >>Maybe this is a dumb question, but once someone compiles a program for >>Linux and includes the dependencies, wouldn't this be easily shared >>between users? >> >>Can't they then put this in their depository for that particular Linux >>distribution? >> >>Even if you don't have it in your particular universe can't you use a >>program from the multiverse. Even converting it from one of the package >>managers to another package manager that fits your Linux distribution? >> >>73, >> >>Rick, KV9U >> >> >>Walt DuBose wrote: >> >> >>>Thanks for the encouragement Frank. >>> >>>For over 2 years now Gerald had been telling me that Oh yes the >>>SDR-1000 was >>>going to be supported by Linux. >>> >>>As I told Dave, W1HJK, in a private E-Mail and I was going to address >>>Andy's and >>>Roger Rehr's comment. For those of us who eun Linux either just >>>because its >>>different or have been using it for years or hate MS or a hundred >>>other reasons, >>>I think that it would be nice to make amateru radio applications as >>>simple to >>>run under Linux as most MS amateur radio applications are under MS. >>> >>> >>><skip down seven paragraphs to leave out my history> >>> >>>But let me tell you where I'm coming from... >>> >>>I have been doind tactical HF communications for over 30 years, the >>>last 8 on my >>>own supporting the local office of emergency management and a disaster >>>relief >>>organization. Before that I was doing tactical HF communications for >>>the Air >>>Force and spend a tour in Saudi during Desert Shiled and Storm as >>>chief of >>>communications for the aeromedical evecuation effort. They had >>>through that >>>time only used HF and has just started using data mixed with voice a >>>couple of >>>years before Desert Shield started in August of 1990. >>> >>>I had worked in my civilian job with the Air Force as an IT >>>procurement analyst >>>and ran the a huge E-Mail system using 10 AT&T 3B2 computers and then >>>the first >>>Air Force electronic commerce web site. A friend and one of my >>>technical >>>support persons suggested that I load Linux on a 386 PC and run >>>multiple >>>desktops rather than have 10 monitors on my desk. That was August of >>>1991. >>> From the 3B2s we went to web servers using medium size Sun servers >>>and Linux >>>workstations. >>> >>>I never was anything but a Linux user and never got much into >>>configuring Linux, >>>etc. >>> >>>When I left that job in 1999, I went to another base that ran MS >>>clients and >>>servers. I have now over 150 MS clients and 6 MS servers to baby sit. >>> >>>I have had to load NT on all of our clients and servers, then W2K and >>>last time >>>XP on the clients. The servers still run W2K server. >>> >>>I can truthfully say that loading MS is a breeze...but having to load >>>Linux on >>>10 different personal computers with the last two, one being Mandrake >>>and one >>>(the last one) being SuSe 9.?, I find that loading them NO problem but >>>runing >>>amateur radio applications a real pain when compaired to MS >>>applications. >>> >>><End my history> >>> >>>I believe that this is why so many hams have an objection to Linux. I >>>find >>>myself coming home and wanting to operate HF data modes and not having >>>to fool >>>around for days trying to get an applications to work or load various >>>libraries, >>>etc. >>> >>>So without pointing any fingers at the amateur radio community...since >>>this IS >>>for most of us a "hobby" or perhaps a "love affair", it would be nice >>>to have >>>Linux applications that are easy to load and run withour compiling and >>>go out >>>and find various different dependencies. >>> >>>I think the latest and very fine example of the sort of amateur radio >>>applications I have loaded is Fldigi by Dave, W1HKJ. Now my Mandarake >>>distro is >>>so old I need to update one library but that's not really a problem or >>>a fault >>>of the applications. >>> >>>And peaking of fine amateur radio things, the theory and construction >>>of the >>>SDR-1000 is super. For the amateur radio operator I believe that it >>>is and will >>>be a leader in the change from the typical radios we have available no >>>to >>>amateur radio operators to SDR radios. Perhaps even a more important >>>step than >>>the Central Electronics 10A/B and 20A/B transmitter and the Drake 2B >>>receiver >>>and Gonset GSB-100 transmitter. >>> >>>I believe that we will see building block SDR radios. Perhaps a case >>>with a >>>number of card slots and you plug in SDR component block cards and >>>build you >>>custom SDR radio. >>> >>>I also look for the same sort of approach for PSK and other data mode >>>radios >>>that are small and portable and replace the current number of QRP rigs. >>> >>>Further, I can see building custom high power amplifiers around >>>various amplfier >>>modules. >>> >>>All these thing will not only bring amateur radio back int the lime >>>light in >>>communications services but also spur iondividuals to get back into >>>the rig >>>building mode and since many of you have such great talent in >>>programming that >>>you can help us by building modular applications and show is the code >>>and >>>explain to us how it works so we can modify it such as Skip Teller did >>>with >>>PSK63 and whomever created PSK125 and like Merray and group did with >>>MFSK-16 and >>>all the other new modes. We need to be able to run them and do lots >>>of beta >>>testing and find out which ones work the best. >>> >>>So I AM frustrated righ now with how Linux is being presented to >>>amateur radio >>>but know that the talent is out there...many on this list, who have the >>>capability so put forth simple code and OF's like me can customize >>>applications. >>> >>>I am counting on everyone's individual talents be they programmer, >>>builder, >>>operator, etc to work in concert to being amateur radio into the >>>leading edge of >>>communications in the 21st Century and especially in the HF data >>>transmission area. >>> >>>73, >>> >>>Walt/K5YFW
