On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 2:54 PM Liam Proven <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 00:47, Sergii Stoian <[email protected]> wrote: > > > You can find answers at github page, section "Why am I doing this?". > Essential point is a "...look, feel, and design principles of NeXTSTEP ". > > At past in this list I saw numerous discussions about "boring, gray, > outdated GUI from 90th". I like it and don't want to waste my time for > discussions. > > OK. > > Personally, I agree on both counts. I think NeXTstep was the > best-looking desktop UI ever created, and I don't want any form of > modernisation or change. > > And I also think a rich, complete NeXT-like desktop for Linux is long > long overdue. > > Agree. > [...] > > I've edited out my other comments because they were all "OK" or "fair > enough". :-) > > > IMHO GWorkspace is the file manager not the Workspace Manager. For > example, docking applications to WindowMaker Dock with drag and drop from > File Viewer is not possible in GWorkspace by design. There are many such > little features (window and application management, focus switches) which > seriously affects the overall feeling/UX of desktop. > > Hmmm. All right. > > >> I'm not trying to challenge you here but I do not really understand > >> what you are doing. > > > > Thank you. I really do understand what am I doing for about 3 years. > > Heh. :-D I would hope so! > > > I understand. Gregory has already replied me. > > Aha! If it was offlist intentionally, then fine. If it was > accidentally -- very easy with this list -- then would you both be > willing to share it? > It's not offlist. His mail is in this thread. > > > Ubuntu has it's own mature desktop. Why it should be replaced? > > It has about 6! > > Official default: GNOME 3 > Optional: KDE, Maté, Xfce, LXDE, Budgie > Unofficial/3rd party: Cinnamon, Enlightenment, Pantheon, and more > > So it's one of the most desktop-agnostic distros, along with Fedora. > > They are almost all to some extent Windows-like desktops, though, or > things modified from Windows-like desktops. > > Note these desktops are around GTK+ and Qt. I will think about GTK+/Qt application integration into NEXTSPACE (global menu, notifications, systray applets). > And it is great. I have Ubuntu installed aside of CentOS on my laptop. > Sometimes Ubuntu losts WiFi, CentOS - never! I like it. > > I don't need to spend days trying to understand why my application > behaves wrong after system package updates. > > Hmmmm. Interesting. > > To be fair, I hear things like this a lot from RH advocates. > Personally, when I tried RH, both when I worked there and privately, I > find it far less reliable than Ubuntu. Stuff doesn't work, needs > manual tweaking, or needs 3rd party drivers which RH don't make > available as they aren't FOSS. > > Yes, vanilla repositories lack some drivers and some software... But there are some repositories with good quality. One of them is EPEL - backport of Fedora applications to CentOS/RHEL. > It's just one of those things. Factionalism, which always makes me sad. > > > I think the user shouldn't know what's inside your working environment: > Cocoa or GNUstep, Linux, Mach or BSD. > > As many users of NeXTSTEP just use it's applications without knowing > version of the Mach kernel. ;) > > If you include Mac OS X users in that, then yes, I see what you mean. > > Sadly the Linux world is not like that -- except perhaps for Android > and ChromeOS. > > I know users which use Ubuntu. They know word "Ubuntu" because it's on boot screen. > > Because it lets me do my work. And plenty of 3rd party applications > works and supported here (Maya, Davinci Resolve, VirtualBox to name a few). > > OK. > > > For example: I switch NEXTSPACE development from FreeBSD to CentOS 7. At > that time CentOS already has systemd, Ubuntu has upstart. Now it's > mainstream. > > Firefox version is 60.2.2 ESR. What fast-movement do you need? > > Hmmm. Perhaps I need to try CentOS 7 again. The last time I looked, it > contained very old versions of things. > > > Personally, I really tired of fast movement from GNOME 2 to Unity, from > Unity to GNOME 3 in Ubuntu. > > I think that is unfair. > > In its 14 years, Ubuntu switched desktops twice. One to Unity, because > its efforts to participate in GNOME 3 development were rebuffed, > rudely refused. > > I supported this. I find the GNOME community hard to interact with and > I strongly dislike GNOME 3 myself. > > And then, 5y later, after a HackerNews discussion, it killed off its > own desktop and went back to GNOME 3. > > This saddened me and I may yet stop using Ubuntu because of it, but it > was a pragmatic decision, sadly. > > Frankly speaking Ubuntu 16.04 LTS is quite good. > > You can install it right now: > https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace/wiki/Build-and-install. > > I had a look. To be honest, it looks considerably more complex than I > am comfortable with. > > ISO files are where I am at. Give me an ISO and I will try it. :-D > > Wait for release then... ;) > > As for me, Etoilé is great playground for conceptual architectural > masterpieces without really useful working desktop. > > It may be. They never released a working ISO, as far as I know, and > for a lot of people, myself included, if the instructions start with > "get the source here" then we just stop. > > > > My intention more pragmatic: make comfort, fast and useful desktop > environment even in the sake of code beauty. ;) > > And I want it to be less featured by more polished in terms of UI/UX and > stability. :) > > Laudable aims. Good luck! > > Thank you. > -- > Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: [email protected] - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: [email protected] > Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven > UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 > -- Sergii Stoian, ProjectCenter maintainer
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